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Morality: Who Needs God?
AISH ^ | N/A | by Rabbi Nechemia Coopersmith

Posted on 02/26/2003 7:19:40 AM PST by Nix 2

Morality: Who Needs God?

If there is an absolute standard of morality, then there must be a God. Disagree? Consider the alternative.

God's existence has direct bearing on how we view morality. As Dostoyevsky so famously put it, "Without God, everything is permitted."

At first glance, this statement may not make sense. Everything is permitted? Can't there be a morality without an infinite God?

Perhaps some of the confusion is due to a murky definition of morality we owe to moral relativism. Moral relativism maintains that there is no objective standard of right and wrong existing separate and independent from humanity. The creation of moral principles stems only from within a person, not as a distinct, detached reality. Each person is the source and definer of his or her subjective ethical code, and each has equal power and authority to define morality the way he or she sees fit.

Random acts of cruelty may not be your cup of tea, but who says your standards are for everyone?

The consequences of moral relativism are far-reaching. Since all moral issues are subjective, right and wrong are reduced to matters of opinion and personal taste. Without a binding, objective standard of morality that sticks whether one likes it or not, a person can do whatever he feels like by choosing to label any behavior he personally enjoys as "good." Adultery, embezzlement, and random acts of cruelty may not be your cup of tea -- but why should that stop someone from taking pleasure in them if that is what they enjoy.

Is having an intimate relationship with a 12-year-old objectively wrong just because you don't like it?

Perhaps murder makes a serial killer feel powerful and alive. A moral relativist can say he finds murder disgusting, but that does not make it wrong -- only distasteful. Hannibal, the Cannibal, is entitled to his own preferences even if they are unusual and repugnant to most.

Popularity has nothing to do with determining absolute morality; it just makes it commonplace, like the color navy.

"But this killer is hurting others!" True. But in a world where everything is subjective, hurting an innocent person is merely distasteful to some, like eating chocolate ice cream with lasagna. Just because we may not like it doesn't make it evil. Evil? By whose standard? No one's subjective opinion is more authoritative than another's.

INCONSISTENT VALUES

Although many people may profess to subscribe to moral relativism, it is very rare to find a consistent moral relativist. Just about everyone believes in some absolute truths. That absolute truth may only be that it is wrong to hurt others, or that there are no absolutes. The point is that just about everyone is convinced that there is some form of absolute truth, whatever that truth may be. Most of us, it seems, are not moral relativists.

Bertrand Russell wrote:

I cannot see how to refute the arguments for the subjectivity of ethical values but I find myself incapable of believing that all that is wrong with wanton cruelty is that I don't like it.

Not too many of us believe that killing an innocent person is just a matter of taste that can change according to whim. Most of us think it is an act that is intrinsically wrong, regardless of what anyone thinks. According to this view, the standard of morality is an unchangeable reality that transcends humanity, not subject to our approval.

THE INFINITE SOURCE

An absolute standard of morality can only stem from an infinite source. Why is that?

When we describe murder as being immoral, we do not mean it is wrong just for now, with the possibility of it becoming "right" some time in the future. Absolute means unchangeable, not unchanging.

What's the difference?

My dislike for olives is unchanging. I'll never start liking them. That doesn't mean it is impossible for my taste to change, even though it's highly unlikely. Since it could change, it is not absolute. It is changeable.

The term "absolute" means without the ability to change. It is utterly permanent, unchangeable.

Think of something absolute. Take for example an icon of permanence and stability -- the Rock of Gibraltar. "Get a piece of the rock" -- it lasts forever!

But does it really? Is it absolute?

No. It is undergoing change every second. It is getting older, it is eroding.

The nature of absolute is a bit tricky to grasp because we find ourselves running into the same problem of our finite selves attempting to perceive the infinite, a topic we have discussed in a previous article in this series. Everything that exists within time undergoes change. That's what time is -- a measurement of change. In Hebrew, shanah means "year," sharing the same root shinah, "change."

If everything in the finite universe is undergoing change, where can we find the quality of absolute?

If everything in the finite universe is undergoing change -- since it exists within time -- where can we find the quality of absolute?

Its source cannot be in time, which is constantly undergoing change. It must be beyond time, in the infinite dimension. Only God, the infinite being that exists beyond time, is absolute and unchangeable.

'I am God, I do not change.' (Malachi 3:6)

Therefore an absolute standard of morality can exist only if it stems from an infinite dimension -- a realm that is eternal, beyond time, with no beginning and no end.

THE DEATH OF EDUCATION

In addition to the demise of morality, moral relativism inevitably leads to the death of education and genuine open-mindedness. The thirst for real learning comes from the recognition that the truth is out there waiting to be discovered -- and I am all the more impoverished with its absence.

Professor Alan Bloom writes in his book "The Closing of the American Mind,"

It is the rarest of occurrences to find a youngster who has been infused by this [liberal arts] education with a longing to know all about China or the Romans or the Jews.

All to the contrary. There is an indifference to such things, for relativism has extinguished the real motive of education, the search for the good life...

...out there in the rest of the world is a drab diversity that teaches only that values are relative, whereas here we can create all the life-styles we want. Our openness means we do not need others. Thus what is advertised as a great opening is a great closing. No longer is there a hope that there are great wise men in other places and times who can reveal the truth about life...

If everything is relative, then it makes no difference what anyone thinks. Ideas no longer matter. With no absolute standard of right and wrong or truth and falsehood, the pursuit of wisdom becomes nonsensical. What are we searching for? If no idea is more valid than another, there is no purpose in re-evaluating one's belief system and being open to exploring new concepts -- since there is no possibility of ever being wrong.

A common argument often heard for supporting relativism is that in the world at large we see a plethora of differing positions on a wide range of moral issues. Try to find one issue all cultures universally agree to!

Professor Bloom addresses this contention:

History and the study of cultures do not teach or prove that values or cultures are relative ... the fact that there have been different opinions about good and bad in different times and places in no way proves that none is true or superior to others. To say that it does so prove is as absurd as to say that the diversity of points of view expressed in a college bull session proves there is no truth ... the natural reaction is to try to resolve the difference, to examine the claims and reasons for each opinion.

Only the unhistorical and inhuman belief that opinions are held for no reason would prevent the undertaking of such an exciting activity.

THE NATURE OF DEBATE

The plethora of disagreements demonstrates exactly the opposite point. If everything is relative, what on earth are we arguing about?

Imagine walking down the street and you hear a ferocious argument taking place behind a door. People are yelling at each other in a fit of rage. You ask a bystander what the commotion is all about. He tells you this is a Ben & Jerry's ice cream store and they're fighting over what is the best flavor of ice cream.

Impossible.

Heated debates occur only because we believe there are right and wrong positions.

Real debates and disagreements occur only because we believe there are right and wrong positions, not mere preferences of flavors. Think of a time you experienced moral outrage. The force behind that anger is the conviction that your position is the correct one. Matters of preference, like music and interior design, do not provoke moral outrage.

What provokes our moral outrage? Injustice? Cruelty? Oppression? There is the sense that an absolute standard of morality is being violated, an objective standard that transcends humanity, that stems from an infinite and absolute Being.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: absolutes; change; ifitfeels; immorality; leftists; moralrelativism; uneducated
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To: OWK
Your whole post was nothing more than warmed-over Objectivism.

The 'force and fraud' exception is utterly shattered by the 'ought-is' perplex. For three hundred years since David Hume first articulated this problem, and since G.E. Moore reformulated it in the early 20th Century, no one has ever been able to derive an objective 'ought' (the way we should act) from an empirical 'is' (the way things are).

What does this mean? It means that ethics (oughts) are logically non-derivable by ratiocination; that there are no "purely reasonable" means of acting. Rand, pathetically, tried to get past this barrier by stating that "there can be no disagreements between rational men", which is hilariously false. Rational men disagree about normative issues all the time, precisely because there is no way to rationally derive them.

So, if rational men cannot agree about the way things "ought" to be, the only way to have any semblance of order is to impose one "ought" over another "ought"; if one side disagrees to the point of non-compliance, then the only way to preserve order is to decide the issue by...force.

Randianism, and libertarianism, are self-refuting belief systems.

41 posted on 02/26/2003 9:37:37 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: Barry Goldwater
No, Barry, she did not. Not logically, anyway.
42 posted on 02/26/2003 9:38:25 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
Randianism, and libertarianism, are self-refuting belief systems.

Then you should have no troubke refuting them...

43 posted on 02/26/2003 9:40:06 AM PST by OWK
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To: Question_Assumptions; freeeee
If you read my earlier post, you would see that I have said pretty much the same. Ultimately, the CHOICE is yours and yours alone. Your choice is between good and evil. HOW you choose depends on the strength that comes from within, and that strength isn't there by accident. Like I said. We CAME with instructions, whatever the interpretation.
Abortion is evil, but the human mind can rationalize and make it SOUND right. Sounding and being are two differest things.
G-d was literally *humanized* in the OT. He lost his temper and then forgave when He cooled down. He allowed Himself to be negotiated with...but that only reinforces the belief that we were created in His image. Maybe we don't LOOK like G-d. Maybe it is the way our minds work that we can think, be, and do.

And, free, DNA is life no matter how you splice it. CREATE DNA from nothing? Nope.
44 posted on 02/26/2003 9:40:49 AM PST by Nix 2 (In G-d's time, not mine.)
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To: OWK
Read the post. I did.
45 posted on 02/26/2003 9:41:55 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: Barry Goldwater
Excellent counterpoint at:

http://religion.aynrand.org/
46 posted on 02/26/2003 9:42:42 AM PST by Barry Goldwater ("Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!")
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To: freeeee
So it would appear that assembling DNA in the proper order is the process of creating life.

I've gto to stop ya here freeeee. Placing a different genome into an already alive bacteria, might be man-made speciation, but it is in no way the creation of life.

47 posted on 02/26/2003 9:42:46 AM PST by realpatriot71 (legalize freedom!)
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To: HumanaeVitae
So did I.
48 posted on 02/26/2003 9:43:05 AM PST by OWK
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To: Nix 2
Could you do me a favor and tell me the moral code of the God of Abraham?
49 posted on 02/26/2003 9:45:01 AM PST by OWK
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To: LuisBasco
America certainly doesn't need God! Look how well everything has been going the last decade without Him. We're in hock for trillions, our industrial base is in China, there are no real jobs left, the Chinese and North Koreans are in postion to fire missiles up our collective ass!

Um, there are no atheists in high office I know of. Religious people did those things, lest you forget.

Case in point: "We're in hock for trillions". Well, we've just broke the record for national debt, and our president is the most religious in recent history.

Your claims don't match reality. Not even close.

50 posted on 02/26/2003 9:47:19 AM PST by freeeee
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To: Nix 2
Is enslavement of innocents permissable under the moral code of the God of Abraham?

How about the murder of innocents?

Is that permitted?

51 posted on 02/26/2003 9:48:04 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
You refuted Objectivism as well? Congratulations.

But if you meant that you refuted me, then please tell me where I went wrong.

Please let me know how ethics are logically derivable from empirical facts.

You'd win quite a few awards if it holds up...

52 posted on 02/26/2003 9:48:13 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: OWK
Nope. They SAID they did. Many horrible things have been done in the NAME of G-d. And besides, their *god* is a moonbeing. Hirohito was a *god* to the Japanese. What is your definition of G-d?
53 posted on 02/26/2003 9:49:41 AM PST by Nix 2 (In G-d's time, not mine.)
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To: OWK
Is enslavement of innocents permissable under the moral code of the God of Abraham?

How about the murder of innocents?

Is that permitted?

Everything is permitted under moral relativism. Which is exactly what your belief system is.

54 posted on 02/26/2003 9:49:42 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
I am a moral absolutist of the first order.
55 posted on 02/26/2003 9:50:45 AM PST by OWK
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To: Nix 2
Many horrible things have been done in the NAME of G-d.

If the Old Testament is to be believed... many horrible things have been done at the COMMAND of God.

Slaughter of innocent children.
Enslavement.
To name a few...

56 posted on 02/26/2003 9:52:45 AM PST by OWK
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To: HumanaeVitae
From the Cathechism:

159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."38

Are you saying that this is untrue?
57 posted on 02/26/2003 9:53:14 AM PST by Barry Goldwater ("Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!")
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To: OWK
Really? But you're an atheist, aren't you?
58 posted on 02/26/2003 9:53:17 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
Really? But you're an atheist, aren't you?

I am.

And a moral absolutist as well.

59 posted on 02/26/2003 9:55:28 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
The only means which men have at their disposal to infringe upon the rights of others are initiated force, threat of initiated force, and fraud. Recognition of this truth, provides the foundation of a moral code. Initiated force, threat of initiated force, and fraud, are immoral inasmuch as they act to infringe man’s pursuit of his happiness as he defines it. All initiated force, threat of initiated force, or fraud, are immoral, whether perpetrated by an individual or by a collection of individuals sometimes known as government.

It is not a truth. It is merely a convenient axiom that libertarians pulled out of their rear ends to base their whole philosophy upon.

60 posted on 02/26/2003 10:05:31 AM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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