Serbs may back rebel republic in Kosovo

timesonline.co.uk ^ | February 22, 2003 | John Phillips

[Destro]

February 22, 2003

Serbs may back rebel republic in Kosovo

By John Phillips

BELGRADE will sponsor a breakaway Serbian mini-state in Kosovo if the West prevents Serbian troops returning to the province to guarantee Serb rights, Zoran Djindjic, the Serbian Prime Minister, said yesterday.

In an interview with The Times, Dr Djindjic dismissed the American contention that it is too early to discuss Kosovo, saying that its hard-won democracy could be at risk.

This month, the United States issued a statement saying that it was concerned with developments in Serbia, Montenegro and Kosovo and said that any attempt to force the pace of change could lead to instability.

Dr Djindjic said nationalist extremists could regain power in Belgrade in elections next year if the international community did not stop Kosovo’s ethnic Albanian majority obtaining independence, which, he argued, the UN was already fostering.

“What is going on is the transfer of all sovereignty to the Kosovar institutions,” he said. “This didn’t just happen. It was planned. International institutions are creating a fully independent Kosovo. By passing laws in Kosovo’s parliament they don’t care what happens in Serbia.”

Dr Djindjic, a formidable opponent of Slobodan Milosevic, received Western support after the former Yugoslav President was overthrown in 2000.

Recently, however, his increasingly patriotic stance has alarmed Western diplomats. But Dr Djindjic is now concerned about a nationalist backlash.

He said that the powers of Kosovo’s parliament, elected under the auspices of the UN interim administration, exceeded the “substantial autonomy”, envisaged under UN Resolution 1244.

According to Dr Djindjic, this outrages Serb refugees from Kosovo in Serbia, who make up about 15 per cent of the electorate.

“They would explode if Kosovo became fully independent. People would say my Government was not defending them,” he said.

“It is time to put our cards on the table. The international community should say how it imagines the future. I don’t think that democratic government can survive if we don’t do enough now.

“Next year we have elections. Kosovo will be the issue. We can’t say it is not time now. We can offer a solution from Belgrade’s side but, if we say we are unable to do that, nationalistic forces will say: ‘We have a solution’.”

Dr Djindjic said that “a thousand or a few hundred” Serb troops should be deployed in Kosovo to enable Serb refugees to return.

“None of the promises have been implemented. All the promises to the Albanian side have been implemented but nothing on the Serbian side.”

“I can leave office and say: ‘OK, I can’t handle this’. But what will come after this Government? In the 2002 elections, the extreme nationalists, led by (Radical Party leader Vojislav) Seselj, got 30 per cent.”

Dr Djindjic denies courting nationalist votes, saying he is entrenched politically because he has outmanoeuvred his rival, Vojislav Kostunica.

Mr Kostunica became Yugoslav President after Milosevic’s downfall but was marginalised when Yugoslavia became the Union of Serbia and Montenegro.

“Some people say this is an attempt to get support. I don’t need that now. Kostunica is not competition,” he said.

“My proposal is to give the Kosovo Serbs constitutional rights and the institutional tools to protect their interests. As a first step it would be enough for the Serbs to be recognised like the Croats in the Bosnian federation. The Croats were 17 per cent and they got a third of representation. In 1999, Kosovo’s Serbs were 18 per cent.

“The people say: ‘Why do Albanians in Macedonia come into the constitution and why do Croats in Bosnia? Why South Tyrol? Why ten other situations?’ What should I answer?” Without a Western-brokered compromise, he said Belgrade would not shrink from partition; with the Serb majority in northern Kosovo, next to Serbia proper, forming a breakaway mini-state similar to the Republic of Srpska in Bosnia.

Ethnic Albanian leaders would oppose that since the province’s mineral wealth is in the north around the city of Mitrovica and war could erupt again in Kosovo threatening Nato peacekeepers.

[Kate22]

Torie - all Destro's sentence lacked was punctuation. He was mimicking Robertson's famous words which caused so much controversy in 1999: "Serbs out, Nato in, Refugees back".

As for your comment about Mexico, it smacks of 'it could never happen to us'. Of course, it couldn't happen in the US because it's far too powerful for outside influences to play puppet master as they did in the Balkans. But the point is absolutely valid.

If there was a separatist movement in the States where its members started killing policemen and carving the insignia of their group on their bodies before dumping them to be found, I'm sure that there would be a VERY violent reaction. This is exactly what was happening in Kosovo (as was confirmed by Robin Cook in the British Parliament in Jan 1999 if you want to look it up).

The mass displacement of people (called 'genocide' at the time by a warmongering Western press) did not happen until after the bombing started. This was also stated by the UK Commons Defence Select Committee after the 'war', at the same time that they confirmed that the attack had been illegal.

Not all Albanians wanted independence. It wouldn't have mattered if they had been 'proud to be Serbian' (the equivalent to your Mexican analogy where you pressume, probably rightly, that immigrants are 'proud to be American'). That would be usual for a group of people who had chosen to live in another sovereign state. The point is that hardliners in what became the Western-backed KLA stoked up violence, hatred and terrorist separatist activities. That can happen anywhere in the world, even on your own doorstep.

The British troops in Northern Ireland have been clamping down on IRA terrorists over decades, and nobody threatened to bomb Britain unless they handed over the territory. Another very similar analogy.

By the way, do you know how many Albanians in Kosovo have been tortured, murdered or beaten by the KLA because they were seen as 'collaborators' or because they refused to join the KLA? There were thousands of innocent people, Serbs, Albanians, Roma, who were terrorised or killed by these thugs after the so-called liberation.

Kosovo is in a mess - it is run by gangsters who trade in people, guns and drugs. They are causing a major headache and rise in crime throughout Europe.

Elsewhere in Serbia, people are poor and things are very tough. There are Albanians living peacefully in Belgrade, but not a single Serb living peacefully in Nato's 'multicultural' Kosovo, even though it remains in their own country.

Finally, let's just remember that Resolution 1244 allowed for the return of Serbian troops and police to the province of Kosovo. This is not something which has come out of the blue. It was agreed by the UN and Nato. Why is it that so many people can't see this situation away from the political line spewed out? Serbia was never a threat to any other country - it only refused to lose its independence and provided a good non-aligned, non-threatening target for Nato to reassert itself in its 50th year. The whole thing could have been sorted out peacefully after the Serbs signed the Paris peace agreement which specified that UN, and not Nato, troops would be allowed into Yugoslavia.

[merak]

The basic fact which nobody wants to face in this one is that the Albanians are basically a bunch of barbarians and rightfully ought to be treated as such. The genesis of the problem in Kosovo in its most recent guise was Milosevic's rescinding of the autonomy of the region in 89. Basically the guy had no options; every other ethnic group in Kosovo was being brutalized by the Albanians.

But the problem is still that you can't simply take a piece of land away from the country which has owned it for the last 1500 years and hand it over to a bunch of other people because they want it.

[Edmund Burke]

Might not be a bad deal. What would we get in return?

[merak]

Might not be a bad deal. What would we get in return?

We'd get to keep Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California.

[cake_crumb]

Get all US troops out of the Balkans NOW.

[cake_crumb]

"You would tell them to stuff it. If indeed that were to happen, and (LOL) it is very unlikely that it would, who will they ask to enforce that 'request?' France?"

Nail on the head BUMP!! LOL

[cake_crumb]

Some quotes from the recent past:

"The biggest surprise is the fact that there were so many victims here, Albanian, Serbian, Roma, Bosnian. ." --Lt. Col. Michael Ellerbe, commanding officer, Third Battalion, 2000

"We face a humanitarian crisis that could be a catastrophe in the making, as tens of thousands of homeless refugees risk freezing or starving to death as winter comes on." -- Bill Clinton, 2000

"First, it is true, but also not surprising, that Serbian forces have avoided provoking us in the last few days."

-- Madeleine Albright, 10/08/1998, explaining the need for military action against the Serbs.

"Tens of thousands of refugees are still afraid to go home" -- Madeleine Albright, 10/08/1998

"I think the most important thing we can do is to try to work with the Russians to try to actually avoid military strikes by securing compliance with the UN resolutions by Milosevic. Now, we have done that. President Yeltsin sent a team of senior people to see Mr. Milosevic and, once again, as he did last June, he promised him that he would comply...if he completely complies, he doesn't have to worry about military force. But I do not believe the United States can be in a position, and I do not believe NATO can be in the position of letting tens of thousands of people starve or freeze to death this winter because Mr. Milosevic didn't keep his word to the Russians and the world community one more time." -- Bill Clinton, 10/07/1998

"Some 250,000 people have been forced to flee their homes. Of that number approximately 50,000 are actually homeless. As winter sets in they risk freezing or starving to death." -- Bill Clinton, 10/06/1999

"Use of force is of course not designed to be used against the Serbian people or the Albanian people of Kosovar. It is designed to bring about the solution set forward in Security Council Resolution 1199...."

"There are now between 250,000 and 400,000 people in Kosovo displaced" --Ambassedor Thomas Pickering, 10/06/1998

"The picture by the international media was of only Albanian victims."

Indeed it was, Col Ellerbe. To our everlasting shame and sorrow.

[cake_crumb]

"You can add the Nazi terrorist Hitler to the list also. His passion for killing people was rooted deeply in the fact that he was a muslem."

No, he wasn't Muslim. He simply wanted to be dictator of the world and kill all people not of the master race...like his Muslim allies did then and still want to do today.

[merak]

"Use of force is of course not designed to be used against the Serbian people or the Albanian people of Kosovar. It is designed to bring about the solution set forward in Security Council Resolution 1199...."

The little girl in the image above is Milica Rakic: Slick Clinton's youngest female victim. She was killed by a NATO bomb hundreds of kilometers from any possible military target, as were several thousand other little orthodox Christian children.

The main rationale for Kosovo was getting the Juanita Broaddrick story off the front pages of American newspapers. Two weeks after Kosovo started, there were pictures in the papers of Slick and his toadies doing high fives and talking about "hitting a home run".

NATO leaders realized that they could not possibly ask any of their airmen to die or take serious risks for another dog-wagging episode and ordered bombing from 25,000 - 30,000 feet and, after they realized that they could not hurt the Serbian military from 25000', they embarked upon a wholesale campaign of war crimes, air operations intended to terrorize and demoralize the Serbian civilian population. All of that sort of activity is illegal under international law, and has been since the end of WW-II.

The basic reality is that Clinton, Albright, Wesley Clark and a number of others are war criminals.

[Destro]

Theansk for the punctuation marks--and for getting the connection with Robertson!

[WOSG]

Right, this is an incitement to breakaway ethnic nationalism worldwide. We should let the Serbs control their own country so long as they respect human rights. imposing kosovo irridentism and sanctifying their own subjugation of serb orthodox christian under thumb of muslim KLA is a mistake. Not that the UN is known to anything right - this muck-up is par for the course for them.

[cake_crumb]

"The basic reality is that Clinton, Albright, Wesley Clark and a number of others are war criminals."

Sorry it took me so long to reply. Yes, they ARE war criminals. They're the real war criminals, and no UN kangaroo International Criminal Kangaroo Court is going to change the facts. The UN is continuing the war crimes while trying to squirm out of a situation that IT caused and IT screwed up, all the while trying to make itself look like the 'good guy'.

I'll never forget the bombing of the bridge with the passenger train full of Serb civilians either...Clinton/Albright ordered genocide of Serbs...to save 'tens of thousands' of refugees who WEREN'T Albanian and DIDN'T even EXIST...and now the REAL enemy, those same 'ethnic Albanians' are even bombing UN facilities.

Muslim 'Utopia' of Greater Albania my FOOT!!

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Just in case anyone missed what you were saying, California could be our Kosovo. If we expect the Serbs to surrender Kosovo, we ought to hold ourselves to the same standard and give up California, Texas, and a few other states. Then again, what about the American indians? Oklahoma at the very least. Otherwise, we are blinking hypocrites.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

TY for your detailed knowledge about Kosovo and Serbia. I am ashamed of what America did there. As for back here in the US, our own laws and our own Constitution would be a huge problem if Mexican nationals started a racial war in California. We can't simply take away peoples' right to elect their mayor, their governor, their sheriff, etc. You want to talk about an ugly situation, if it reaches critical mass, with perhaps 2% of native born citizens fleeing California every year at some point, being replaced with Mexican nationals, when Mexican nationals begin holding Mexican style elections for local seats, God help this nation. We would never have a secure border again. A wave of anarchy would hit the neighboring state borders. And apparently it will reach critical mass prior to 2008.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Rush and Hannity are apparently unwilling to go against the old left dogma that Kosovo was a good and just war. I forsee US troops wearing baby blue barets, ordered to kill Serb rebels who invade their own own land as a definite possibility. The left will say it must be so, that our war against Serbia was just. And the conservative leaders feel pinned down because they will look 'too patizan' if they disagree. Conservatives want to say that they back every US military action, that they always 'support the troops'. But this is a big, dangerous trap for us. I hope they at least begin the Old Soft Shoe about what Kosovo is really about. Maybe they don't feel comfortable challenging this leftist dogma head-on yet. Fine. They can at least pave the way. But failure to undermine this dogma is dangerous. The well is poisoned. If US troops get killed in Kosovo on a regular basis, the Vietnam protests will be nothing compared to what could bite them over this. THANK YOU CLINTON!

Another point: the Serbs are no pushovers. Hitler learned that the hard way. The Turks learned that the hard way. The USSR never even tried to mess with this tiny loner. The Serbs were confused when we attacked them. But that confusion will not last forever. When their minds are made up, God help anyone who stands in their way.

[Marines981]

Say we do allow Kosovo to exist, would this benefit the Islamic terrorist world?

[Destro]

Look at the results-even under NATO occupation it is an islamic terrorist haven-not to mention a narco white slavery strong hold.

What will it like in the future?

[ABrit]

You said: "The mass displacement of people (called 'genocide' at the time by a warmongering Western press) did not happen until after the bombing started. This was also stated by the UK Commons Defence Select Committee after the 'war', at the same time that they confirmed that the attack had been illegal."

Now, what the Select Committee actually said:

50. The number of refugees and internally displaced people continued to grow, reaching 300,000 by September 1998, leading to military threats[103] and then the Holbrooke agreement.http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmfaff/28/2809.htm

82. There were warnings before the campaign was launched that it would provoke an escalation in Serb attacks upon the Kosovo Albanians. Jane Sharp told us that a senior Serb general had warned in October 1998 that "if there were bombing there would be retaliation against the Kosovars."

On 28 March The Sunday Times quoted General Hugh Shelton, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, as warning on 15 March—ten days before air strikes were launched—that:

"There was a danger...that far from helping to contain the savagery of the Serbs in Kosovo—a moral imperative cited by the President—air strikes might provoke Serb soldiers into greater acts of butchery."

86. It is clear that, as some predicted, there was an escalation in the violence against the Kosovo Albanians after the bombing began. The OSCE monitors in Kosovo reported that "the level of incidence of summary and arbitrary killing escalated dramatically immediately after the OSCE-KVM withdrew on 20 March." They go on to report that "summary and arbitrary killing became a generalised phenomenon throughout Kosovo with the beginning of the NATO air campaign against the FRY on the night of 24/25 March."[201] The FCO itself has said that "around 10,000 Kosovo Albanians, many of them civilians, were killed by Yugoslav forces between June 1998 and June 1999. Most of these deaths occurred in the period between March and June 1999."[202] However, on the question of the causal connection between NATO action and the escalation in violence, the Foreign Secretary told us:

"certainly there has been a humanitarian crisis within Kosovo and the surrounding areas...but if you are suggesting that this is as a result of NATO bombing I would vigorously rebut it...we know the spring offensive was planned before the NATO bombing began. Indeed, one of the reasons why we were motivated to suspend the peace talks is we could see that, whilst the Serbs talked peace in Paris, they were massing their tanks and heavy artillery in and around Kosovo..."

87. We cannot know exactly what would have happened if NATO had not launched its campaign when it did: it is possible that Milosevic would have started the full-scale ethnic cleansing of Kosovo regardless of NATO's actions, and it is doubtless the case that the planned offensive would have been "brutal" as the Foreign Secretary told us, "both because of how [Serb forces] conducted themselves in the previous year in Kosovo, in which 400,000 people had been made homeless and because of the way in which they conducted the war in Bosnia and Croatia."[205] According to the Government, "before the air strikes began there were over 210,000 people internally displaced within Kosovo and 70,000 refugees outside Kosovo."[206] But it is likely that the NATO bombing did cause a change in the character of the assault upon the Kosovo Albanians. What had been an anti-insurgency campaign—albeit a brutal and counter-productive one, involving atrocities such as that at Racak in January 1999—became a mass, organised campaign to kill Kosovo Albanians or drive them from the country. This was partly because of the Serbs' reaction to the bombing, and partly because the launch of the campaign required that the OSCE monitors be withdrawn, thereby removing one of the obstacles to action against the Kosovo Albanians.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmfaff/28/2810.htm#a26

[ABrit]

"What will it like in the future?"

It will be free of Serbs!!!!!

[DTA]

>>>>>That's not causal. Bosnia is only one of a hundred festering swamps.<<<<<

It depends how you look at a it. Germany has very efficient antiterrorist police and capable intel community. Because of the American support to radical islamists in Bosnia (Holbrooke was U.S. Ambassador to Germany then), radical islamists in Germany were left alone and considered to be "our guys". So, no one paid attention what they were up to. Until it was too late. Atta was recruited by Bosnia's hand.

take a look:

Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman (the convicted mastermind behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing) was connected to the TWRA, a phony relief agency. Alija Izetbegovic, the President of Bosnia, provided a guarantee for Elfatih Hassanein (head of the TWRA and a personal friend of Izetbegovic) to open an account for the TWRA in Die Erste Österreich Bank in Vienna, Austria in 1993.

* Mohammed Haydar Zammar, the man who recruited key 9-11 hijacker, Mohammad Atta, to the Al-Qaeda network, based his terrorist activities in Bosnia. Zammar also brought two of Atta's lieutenants into the Al-Qaeda network, namely Ramzi Binalshibh and Said Bahaji.

* Osama Bin Laden was given a Bosnian passport at the Bosnian Embassy in Vienna, Austria. Many other terrorists connected to the Al-Qaeda network also received blank Bosnian passports that enabled them to further propagate their illicit activities.

* Abu el Maali (Abdelkader Mokhtari), a senior representative of Al-Qaida, was based in Bosnia until recently. Just a few years ago, a US official called him a junior Osama Bin Laden.

* Bensayah Belkacem was arrested in October 2001 in Bosnia. Numbers stored in his mobile phone link him to at least one of Bin Laden's top lieutenants.

BTW, I'm just curious, what map are you looking at in the backdrop of your nightly news.

This one, perhaps?