[MurryMom]

Bush finally tries to appease the environmentalists and it turns out he's merely attempting to deceive the voters yet again.

Go figure!

[ECM]

I think we're all aware that there really is no appeasing environmentalists. Even when he attempts to cater to them, he gets spit on.

And yeah, hydrogen-based fuel cells are a pipe dream, but so is just about every other form of "renewable" energy.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Boiled down, the reason that hydrogen from water won't work is that it takes more enegy to break the bond between hydrogen and water than a fuel cell can produce. This energy must come from somewhere and it is usually electricity. The load put on the power grid to generate enough hydrogen to fuel +200 million cars wouold bring it to its knees.

[Monster Zero]

Speaking of hot air...

[TontoKowalski]

Looks like nuclear energy is about the only way to go.

[NittanyLion]

You're right - this hydrogen talk is nonsense. It's clear nuclear power is the best long-term solution.

[eastsider]

But there's a catch: Making hydrogen from water requires loads of electricity, far more electricity than the energy value of the hydrogen that is obtained, and something--be it a coal-fired power plant or an atomic reactor--must provide the electricity.... John McCarthy, a Stanford University professor emeritus of computer science, has written, "The large-scale use of hydrogen depends on using either nuclear or solar electricity."

I'm no authority on energy production, but couldn't the electricity be generated from wind power?

[Paul_B]

> Republicans relentlessly mocked Al Gore for saying the internal combustion engine should be replaced by something better, and now George W. Bush is saying exactly the same thing.

Not quite. Gore's plan doubtless would have entailed aggressive government regulations to fit an unproven agenda. Bush, OTOH, is spending research bucks to first develop the technology. Big dif.

I agree with the article's point, though, that Bush's rhetoric, like Clinton's and Gore's previous on the subject, is far too utopian. There are massive problems to switching to hydrogen or electric powered cars in a way that transcends zero-sum use of existing fuels to make hydrogen or electricity (though even that could bring some small logistical advantage, as in lowering pollution in dense population areas).

I suppose the reason for the smooth rhetoric, and the massive cumulative loosing of governmental coffers in general that we have seen, is to silence domestic political opposition one issue at a time. This stuff tends to play well among the masses. Such is the political reality, I guess.

[thepitts]

Bush finally tries to appease the environmentalists and it turns out he's merely attempting to deceive the voters yet again.

I agree with your statement, but not you agenda.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

new type of engine it will use most fuels and can
be scaled to any size.

http://www.starrotor.com

1805 Southwood Dr.
College Station, TX 77840
contact@StarRotor.com
1. Home

2. Description
2.1 Qualitative
2.2 Comparison
2.3 Technical
Data
2.4 Technical
FAQ

3. Context
3.1 Fuel
Shortage
3.2 Global
Warming
3.3 Automobile
Crossroads

4. Applications

5. Hardware
Gallery

6. Patents

StarRotor Engine Properties
(place your mouse on green text for more information)


High efficiency (44%-64%)

Low Pollution
Low Cost
Low Maintenance

Long Life
High Power Density
Negligible Vibration
Multi-fuel



The StarRotor engine uses the Brayton cycle, the same thermodynamic cycle employed by jet engines. Ambient air is compressed to about 6 atm, and then is preheated by a heat exchanger. The preheated compressed air is further heated by combusting fuel. The hot, high-pressure gas expands, thereby doing work. In the heat exchanger, thermal energy is recovered from the exhaust gases. The compressor and expander use a gerotor, a positive-displacement device that can process the large volumes of gas required by Brayton cycle engines.

[Boss_Jim_Gettys]

What an absolutely STUPID article (but you probably already knew that).

Anyone with half-a-brain or who knew ANYTHING about this subject knows that any hydrogen fuel cell car will use liquid fuels (gasoline or possibly methanol) and will have an onboard reformer to convert the liquid fuel to hydrogen on demand. This would of course solve the problem of infrastructure, who will refuel the car, etc. that the author is so happy to point out.

Any environmentalist whack-o that would tell the truth would admit that such a system will reduce pollution in that a) both fuels will, by necessity, be sulfur-free (no SOx emissions) and no internal combustion means no NOx emissions. Both of these, as I'm sure you already knew, are what cause acid rain.

Factor in the spinoffs which will inevitably occur from the R&D dollars already being expended on this by private industry and I think it would be obvious that this is going to be a winner.

The "stupid cowboy" Bush strikes again.

[Willie Green]

Bush finally tries to appease the environmentalists and it turns out he's merely attempting to deceive the voters yet again.

That's easy, MurryMom, both major political factions of the Republicrat Party have been derelict in their duty to develop a responsible and comprehensive America First! Energy Policy for the last 30 years.

Friends, neither Beltway party is going to drain this swamp, because to them it is not a swamp at all, but a protected wetland and their natural habitat. They swim in it, feed in it, spawn in it.

-- Patrick J. Buchanan, "A Plague on Both Your Houses"

U.S. Petroleum & Crude Oil Overview
(thousand barrels per day)

	1960	1965	1970	1975	1980	1985	1990	1995	2000
U.S. Crude Oil Production	7,035	7,804	9,637	8,375	8,597	8,971	7,355	6,560	5,834
U.S. Petroleum Imports	1,815	2,468	3,419	6,056	6,909	5,067	8,018	8,835	11,093
Total	8,850	10,272	13,056	14,431	15,506	14,038	15,373	15,395	16,927
Imports as % of Total	20.5	24.0	26.2	42.0	44.6	36.1	52.2	57.4	65.5

Reflecting their totalitarian, command-economy, communist roots, the environuts have systematicly placed development of our own domestic energy resources off limits. Transnational corporate globalists like Dubya merely ignore their buffoonery and move offshore, leaving our nation hostage to the whacknut demands and evermore dependent on imports.

To maintain our liberty and independence, there are a variety of policies that we should be pursuing. First and foremost would be a flat revenue tariff of 10~15% on ALL imported goods, including oil. That would significantly motivate development of ALL domestic sources of energy production.

On the consumption side, we could also significantly reduce our petroleum consumption, NOT by defying the laws of physics and imposing extremist "efficiency" levels on which there are diminishing returns of investment, but by employing technology that is currently available. Construction of modern, efficient, electriclly powered mass-transportation systems (light rail, high-speed rail and Maglev) in our nation's most densely populated regions and urban areas would provide an efficient and competitive transportation alternative that utilizes an energy source other than petroleum. And the vast quanitites of electricity necessary to offset the petroleum consumption could easily be provided by nuclear power.

[robertpaulsen]

"which can be used to power a car producing only water,"

Sounds good, but where does all that water go? Could raise the oceans and wipe out coastlines! (You know that's coming -- they're printing up the protest signs right now).

[meandog]

1. Go suck an egg.
2. Bush is doing more in building future technology than anything your liberal heroes have ever dreamt about doing.
3. If hydrogen won't work, we can always use the fumes from Hillary's undergarments--although there'll be a noxious foul odor, the volatile fumes will last a milenium.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Your bad breath could someday become a source of energy, MurryMom....

[discostu]

Can stop in the second paragraph, this is an obvious hitpiece with no intention to inform and lots of intention to twist and lie. We mocked Gore not for saying the IC engine should be replaced, but for saying it should be OUTLAWED in 2005 whether OR NOT there was a viable alternative.

[Mr. Jeeves]

If President Gore had made the exact same proposal this article would never have been written.

[Britton J Wingfield]

Republicans relentlessly mocked Al Gore for saying the internal combustion engine should be replaced by something better, and now George W. Bush is saying exactly the same thing.

Not at all. Internal Combustion can be fueled by hydrogen quite easily. BMW already does this.

[Redcloak]

Heh, heh, heh... I almost feel sorry for you Mom. Folks like you must really have their knickers in a twist after W harpooned yet another of your "issues". Not bad for someone y'all claim has the IQ of a brick.

[TBall]

I wish that the auto makers would produce more cars that run on natural gas.

[rwfromkansas]

This is posted by Murrymom....and from the leftist commie New Republic.

Interesting.....liberal environmentalists are attacking Bush for trying to do something good. He could forbid the use of gas in cars tomorrow and the environmentalists would go crazy because Bush is Republican.