California: PUC proposal to tax solar power could chill climate for fuel savings

The San Francisco Chronicle ^ | Sunday, February 16, 2003 | David Lazarus

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Modesto resident Bob DeMont took the California energy crisis real seriously. During the worst of the shortages, he cut power consumption at his home by 40 percent and has since gone on to install a $115,000 solar system on his roof.

[Grampa Dave]

Hey the Lunatic Libs in Kalifornicators legislature wants to tack an extra tax/fee on Pampers and other disposbable diapers.

Supposedly this is to help the land fills.

We know that it is just another attempt to tax everything we use and passes through us by the tax and spend rats.

[First_Salute]

You are not far from it; the proposal will be a "reverse balloon tax:"

You must pay a tax to move out of the State of Kalifornia, because your departure is an "unfair burden" upon those people remaining.

[daviddennis]

Do either of you know what the actual cost per killowatt is to pay off the power bonds? The amounts being discussed seem punitive to the point of absurdity.

What percentage of California residents can afford to set up solar panels or even diesel co-generation? It seems to me that we should be encouraging both in view of the power crisis, as long as (in the case of diesel generators) the environmental impacts can be handled.

I woud think the number of people and companies going off-grid would be insignificant compared to the money needed. Rate payers would be paying a few cents extra a year if we left these people alone, but they'd be paying a lot more to enforce this silly law.

This also has invasiveness issues. Maybe you don't have much need for privacy in the amount of power you generate, but there's something offensive about having a State-provided power monitor in your home. And if this is really a $16/month fee, and the power monitor costs a few hundred bucks, they're never going to get their money back.

How stupid is that?

I can see their concern if a lot of high-usage businesses go off the grid, even though they should be encouraging this if they want to prevent another power crisis in the future. But if they insist on taking this short-sighted point of view, they should create a simple loophole: Use under a megawatt a year, forget it, the tax is not worth collecting. Otherwise, they spend absurdy more than they receive. Words fail me when describing their stupidity.

D

[Trust but Verify]

The good news is that this stuff is portable. Offended Californians can put the gear on the truck with the rest of their personal effects on the way to a more reasonable state.

If you go by the reasoning they used to go after solar users, they'd probably find a way to tax you whereever you went. After all, shouldn't everyone shoulder the cost? If there a difference if you opt-out by going solar or if you opt-out by moving? Heck, maybe they'll even come up with a law to stop people from leaving CA. After all, they need the money!

[Lancey Howard]

John Nelson, a spokesman for Pacific Gas and Electric Co., said the utility is sympathetic to the plight of solar users but believes all Californians should be responsible for the state's electricity costs. "It's about paying your fair share," he said. "Exit fees are designed to protect all the other customers who can't afford to put solar on their roof."

HAHAHAAaa!! Spoken like a true socialist Democrat.
John Nelson.... what a scumbag!

[First_Salute]

Let's further square the bills:

People using bottled water should pay a tax.

People using electric cars should pay an extra highway tax. Solar-powered cars must pay double, that!

[Lancey Howard]

Heck, maybe they'll even come up with a law to stop people from leaving CA.

More likely, they'll come up with a "leaving town tax", like Springfield's Mayor Quimby came up with following the filming of Radioactive Man.

[Tunehead54]

Savings from use of solar power would thus be cut almost in half for most people, she said, noting that solar can reduce the average $80 PG&E bill by about $40. This would significantly lengthen the time it would take for the typical $15,000 solar system to pay for itself.

---

Is this right? If so, these aren't "sky high" rates. During midsummer I regularly pay $300 electric bills here in Florida.

[First_Salute]

Yet another chapter for my book, Electricity Comes from Walls (c)1995.

[Lancey Howard]

I guess if California wants to tax the sun they would also want to tax the wind for anybody who uses windmill-generated power?

I can see a tax revolt where somebody buys one off-grid system and then passes it around the state from person to person, forcing the state to keep installing monitoring equipment wherever it goes.

[NormsRevenge]

Bump

[yankeedame]

I hadn't thought about that but you're right. $80 is the average PG&E monthly bill out there? For what, $80 per room?

If my DP&L (Dayton Power and Light) bill came in at $80, I'd call these folks PDQ to find out what the heck is going on. I'd be worried they're saving it all up to dump on me all at once.

[First_Salute]

California should pay the salt tax and snow plow tax for Ohio, because it's unfair that Ohio has snow while California doesn't.

[Dog Gone]

Do either of you know what the actual cost per killowatt is to pay off the power bonds?

I don't recall ever hearing what the CPUC has added to the electric bills to cover those costs.

This proposed fee is just mind-boggling. It's bad policy, not-cost effective, and fundamentally unfair.

Hence, it will become law.

[snopercod]

...and let's not forget pedestrians. They are shifting the burden of all those gasoline taxes / registration fees to those who drive autombiles. Unfair!!!

[snopercod]

must now=must not. Bad fingers, BAD!!!

[dalereed]

"would most Californians be willing to pay just a couple of cents annually to encourage use of solar energy statewide? Something tells me they would."

Something had better talk to me before he/she/it mentions it to this socialist scumbag!

[NativeNewYorker]

The monthly electricity bill for my 3 br APARTMENT in Manhattan cycles from a winter low of ~$275 to a summer high of ~$850.

I get SO tired of hearing other folks complain.

[ChadGore]

Wait just a damn second. wet-wetting environs want to take MY MONEY (in for form of a subsidy to users of solar power) to get people to use something they'll be taxed for ? ?!?

Let me get this straight: A) I earn My Money.
B) I give my money to the government (taxes).
C) The government gives my money to Mr. and Mrs. Sheeaugoo (Prounced "ShareAYugo":)when they buy a solar heating system.
D) The goverment takes back the subsidy in the form of a tax, thus leaving Mr. and Mrs. 'ShareAYugo' with a solar heating system they have to give up money to operate, and pissing them off enough that want to RAISE the subsidy on solar power, thus creating, yet another, new and crative way for liberals to spend my money.

Will liberals never cease ?

[Robert357]

I can see their concern if a lot of high-usage businesses go off the grid...

That is the concern. The reporter is having a little bit of fun with the public by pointing out the unintended results of what the CPUC is considering doing.

I personally find the unintended results of the entire power bond approach to California refusing to raise rates to be facinating.

The state now has a poor bond rating and pays more for borrowed funds, the large power using companies in the state are at a competitive disadvantage, and state agencies will need to pay much more for their electricity for many years in the future.

We have seen some companies like Buck knives move to Idaho for a variety of reasons included, much lower electric power costs. We are seeing some companies trying to remain looking at putting in their own generation, only to be told no you still have to pay. And of course new property sales laws have gone into effect so that people selling their property and moving elsewhere have a big chunk of the sales proceeds diverted to the state for likely income taxes due.

From my perspective, the California's government has just about created the "perfect economic storm" so that it will take a long long time for the state economy to recover.

How sad.