Please explain the difference between .38 and .380 (vanity)

2/16/03 | self

[Myrddin]

So a .380 will take 9mm ammo? Sorry for my ignorance.

No. Semi-auto, rimless cartridges depend on having the case mouth (where the bullet is crimped into the brass) settle on a rim at the end of the firing chamber. This places the case head (where the primer is placed) in exactly the correct spacing for the firing pin to strike. A .380 ACP (9mm kurz) will slide down into the chamber and stop at the rim. The firing pin can't possible reach the primer. The 9mm, if placed in a .380 ACP chamber will protrude a great distance. The slide will not close and (hopefully) a safety mechanism will block the hammer from striking the firing pin.

This same technique of setting the headspace using the case mouth is also employed in the .45 ACP.

You should never put any ammo into a firearm unless is is specifically designed to handle that ammo. It is dangerous to do so. At the minimum, you may be disappointed when it doesn't fire. The worst case is obvious.

Bullet weights for the .380 ACP range from 85 gr to 110 gr. The .380 ACP uses a .354 caliber bullet. Same as the 9mm. The .38SPL uses a .357 caliber bullet in weight ranges from 125 gr to 180 gr.

[Libertina]

LOL My brother likes his 454 Casull. powerful :)

[JRandomFreeper]

The firing pin can't possible reach the primer.

That turns out to not be the case, in my experience.

/john

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

""shouldn't .38 and .380 be "close"?""

No, they are not REALLY named for their actual bullet diammeter- they got these names for historical reasons, not mathematical ones, and you cannot treat the last digit as a "significant digit" at all. For example, as pointed out above, the .38 Special and the .357 bullet are the same diameter - the difference is in the length of the cartridge case, primarily.

[Double Tap]

The reason it turned out to not be the case in your situations is that the extractor was holding the .380 in the proper place and allowed the firing pin/striker to hit the primer properly. It can happen either way, but usually the extractor will hold the cartridge in place as yours did.

Glad you were not hurt.

[JRandomFreeper]

but usually the extractor will hold the cartridge in place as yours did.

It was the first round in the magazine. And I was much more tentative about racking the slide back then. If it had fed from the middle of the magazine, there would be a different story told. And probably typed by someone with fingers.

Always check ammo. Always.

I did luck out. I am glad also.

/john

[Double Tap]

As an example of how the extractor can hold a cartridge well enough to fire:

I have several 9mmP cases that look like little mushrooms. They were fired in a pistol chambered for 40 S&W. I was watching a fella at the local range show his wife how to shoot. His S&W pistol was acting like a single shot. He would have to cycle the slide after every shot and the bullets were hitting the target sideways. I asked him what the problem was, and he said that his gun was broken as it would not cycle properly. He asked if I could take a look at it. The pistol was clearly marked as 40 S&W, but the box of ammo he was using was clearly marked 9mm. I showed him the fired cases and what he was doing wrong.

He walked off grumbling something about letting the wife pack the ammo in his bag!!!

[Shooter 2.5]

It always amazes me when careful reloaders will use questionable powders in order to save a couple of dollars.

Also, putting nasty, corroded cartridges into guns worth hundreds of dollars.

The same thing about accidently dropping a cartrdge on the ground and failing to clean it before loading it.

More importantly, if someone offers reloaded ammunition, use it in their gun. Make sure you have your eye protection on.

[Ursus arctos horribilis]

Calibers are misleading as to bore diameter. 38 calibers are a varied lot, a 38 Smith and Wesson is a .360 bullet diameter and was for weaker top break revolvers. A 38 Special is a .357 bullet diameter, the same as a 357 magnum.

The 380 ACP, (automatic cartridge pistol) is .355 bullet diameter and known in various European countries as the 9mm Short, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Breve, or 9mm Corto to differentiate it from the longer and more powerful 9mm Parabellum, also called the 9mm Luger.

As an aside, the 9mm Parbellum came out in 1902 and today is 101 years old. The venerable .45 ACP invented by John Browning was chambered for the Colt 1911 in that same year and is now 92 years old, it remains the preference of millions today and is still going strong. I think my old (Remington Rand )19111A1 made in 1943, and my constant companion for many years is the greatest combat hand gun ever made. It's form and function is timeless, once mastered, the .45 ACP 1911 is a true friend indeed

[RecentConvert]

Thanks. I learned something new today.

[El Gato]

Several years ago, the Texas Rangers switched from their 357 Magnum revolvers to the 45 cal. autopistol.

They must have switched back as I've seen pictures of Rangers, plus local cops and sherrifs, from the late 1910's and the 1920s with 1911 type pistols. I've seen some of the pistols themselves in the Ranger Museum in Waco. If you like guns, and cops and robbers too, try to stop in there sometime. It's on I-35 the first exit south of the Brazos river, (exit 335-B) on the east side of the highway. It's also a working Ranger station, so be on your best behavior, "..cause that's were the Ranger's gonna be" :)

[El Gato]

They must have switched back

Meant to say "back again", assuming they had switched to .357 from .45 ACP in the first place. Actually I believe the Rangers have considerable leeway in their choice of carry weapons, with not all Rangers carrying the same caliber or even type.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The best way to compare two cartridges is to compare their energies at the muzzle.

The .380 has a muzzle energy of 180 foot-pounds, while the .38 Special has a muzzle energy of 251 foot-pounds.

The .38 has almost 50% more energy.

Handgun Ballistics
PROPERTIES				ENERGY	VELOCITY (feet/second)					BULLET PATH
Caliber	Item No.	Bullet Type	Weight	FT. LBS.	MUZZLE	25 Yds.	50 Yds.	75 Yds.	100 Yds.	25 Yds.	50 Yds.	75 Yds.	100 Yds.
25 Auto	25A	FMJ	50	62	750	722	695	670	645	1.83	0	-6.33	-17.50
32 Auto	32A	FMJ	71	126	900	869	838	809	781	1.19	0	-4.28	-11.89
32 Auto	32B	JHP	60	117	980	849	820	791	763	1.26	0	-4.49	-12.46
32 S&W Long	32SWLA	LRN	98	132	780	758	737	717	697	1.64	0	-5.64	-15.50
32 S&W Long	32SWLB	LWC	100	103	680	655	630	607	584	2.28	0	-7.75	-21.40
380 Auto	380SFA	SFHP	95	180	925	884	847	813	783	1.14	0	-4.12	-11.49
380 Auto	380A	FMJ	90	169	920	886	853	822	791	1.13	0	-4.12	-11.46
380 Auto	380B	JHP	90	169	920	886	853	822	791	1.13	0	-4.12	-11.46
38 Special+P	38SFA	SFHP	125	251	950	918	889	863	838	1.06	0	-3.77	-10.45
38 Special	38A	LRN	158	235	820	801	783	765	749	1.43	0	-5	-13.74
38 Special	38C	LWC	148	175	730	703	677	652	628	1.95	0	-6.69	-18.50
38 Special +P	38D	JHP	125	250	950	920	892	864	837	1.03	0	-3.77	-10.44
38 Special	38G	FMJ	132	207	840	817	795	773	752	1.38	0	-4.82	-13.27
38 Special	38N	JSP	158	225	800	780	760	741	722	1.54	0	-5.29	-14.55
38 Super Auto+P	38SA	FMJ	130	343	1090	1041	1000	965	934	0.75	0	-2.92	-8.16
38 Super Auto+P	38SB	JHP	115	320	1120	1061	1013	972	937	0.71	0	-2.83	-7.95
9mm Luger	9SFL	SFHP	95	330	1250	1239	1228	1217	1207	.46	0	-1.90	-5.26
9mm Luger	9SFB	SFHP	124	327	1090	1043	1003	969	939	0.75	0	-2.89	-8.03
9mm Luger	9A	FMJ	115	338	1150	1099	1057	1020	988	0.65	0	-2.59	-7.26
9mm Luger	9B	JHP	115	344	1160	1099	1049	1007	971	0.65	0	-2.62	-7.37
9mm Luger	9G	FMJ	124	339	1110	1059	1017	980	949	0.71	0	-2.83	-7.86
357 Magnum	357SFA	SFHP	150	480	1200	1131	1076	1031	992	0.60	0	-2.47	-6.97
357 Magnum	357A	JSP	158	505	1200	1132	1078	1033	994	0.60	0	-2.46	-6.95
357 Magnum	357B	JHP	125	584	1450	1337	1235	1155	1093	0.36	0	-1.78	-5.19
357 Magnum	357C	JHP	150	504	1230	1158	1100	1053	1012	0.56	0	-2.35	-6.65
357 Sig	357Sig-SFB	SFHP	124	502	1350	1263	1190	1132	1083	0.43	0	-1.96	-5.62
357 Sig	357Sig-A	FMJ/FP	124	512	1350	1242	1158	1093	1040	0.45	0	-2.07	-5.95
40 S&W	40SFA	SFHP	180	388	985	958	933	910	889	0.93	0	-3.45	-9.58
40 S&W	40SFB	SFHP	155	463	1160	1092	1039	994	957	0.65	0	-2.66	-7.47
40 S&W	40B	JHP	156	396	1040	1002	970	941	915	0.83	0	-3.14	-8.75
40 S&W	40D	FMJ	165	355	985	955	928	903	879	0.94	0	-3.46	-9.59
40 S&W	40E	FMJ/FP	180	388	985	957	931	908	885	0.94	0	-3.44	-9.52
10mm Auto	10SFA	SFHP	180	361	950	926	903	882	862	1.04	0	-3.7	-10.16
10mm Auto	10A	TC-FMJ	200	490	1050	1008	972	941	912	0.82	0	-3.08	-8.63
10 mm Auto	10B	JHP	170	543	1200	1117	1052	1000	958	0.62	0	-2.55	-7.21
41 Rem Mag	41C	TCSP	210	788	1300	1210	1141	1065	1038	0.49	0	-2.16	-6.15
44 S&W Special	44SA	SWC-CP	240	308	760	737	714	692	671	1.75	0	-6.01	-16.56
44 S&W Special	44SB	JHP	180	383	980	938	902	869	839	1	0	-3.67	-10.14
44 Rem. Mag	44SFA	SFHP	240	900	1300	1212	1138	1079	1030	0.49	0	-2.13	-6.08
44 Rem. Mag	44A	LSWC-GCK	240	833	1250	1168	1103	1051	1008	0.55	0	-2.32	-6.60
44 Rem. Mag	44B	JHP	180	783	1400	1270	1167	1091	1032	0.42	0	-2.01	-5.84
44 Rem. Mag	44C	JHP	240	901	1300	1217	1151	1098	1053	0.48	0	-2.12	-6.03
44 Rem. Mag	44D	TC-SP	240	900	1300	1216	1144	1086	1038	0.49	0	-2.11	-6
45 Auto	45SFA	SFHP	230	369	850	830	811	792	775	1.32	0	-4.63	-12.67
45 Auto	45A	FMJ	230	352	830	809	789	769	749	1.41	0	-4.90	-13.48
45 Auto	45B	JHP	185	333	900	867	836	805	776	1.19	0	-4.30	-11.96
45 Auto	45C	FMJ-SWC	200	321	850	818	788	761	734	1.36	0	-4.84	-13.48
45 Colt	45LB	FMJ-FP	250	355	800	783	766	750	733	1.52	0	-5.22	-14.31
*45 Colt+P+	45HA	JSP	300	1041	1250	1192	1144	1102	1066	.51	0	-2.17	-6.13
*WARNING: This ammunition is loaded to higher pressures and is, therefor, not intended for use in firearms of weaker receiver/frame strength such as the Colt Single Action Army revolver. Please consult the firearms manufacturer for compatibility and use. Abbreviations: CC - Copper Coated LRN - Lead Round Nose JSP - Jacketed Soft Point LFP - Lead Flat Point JHP - Jacketed Hollow Point LSWC - Lead Semi-Wadcutter SFHP - Starfire Hollow Point GCK - Gas Check FMJ - Full Metal Jacket LWC - Lead Wadcutter TC - Truncated Cone This Ballistics Table was calculated by using current data for each load. Velocity figures are from test barrels; user velocities may vary from those listed. The data in the table represents the approximate behavior of each loading under the following conditions: 59ºF, barometric pressure of 29.52 inches, sea level altitude.

[Myrddin]

My brass is cleaned and polished to the quality of fine jewelry before each reloading session. The RCBS 505 scale is perfectly balanced and the load books are out to make sure I'm using the right powder type and weight. Only one powder on the bench at a time. The Dillon 550 is carefully calibrated at each station and the powder drop weighed to the nearest 0.1 gr. The finished product goes into a cartridge guage to ensure legal SAAMI dimensions. OAL is verified with calipers. Crimps checked with a micrometer. Checks for case head bulges from over pressure as well.

I've taught my wife the same principles and trust the quality of ammo she loads as well. Our firearms vary in value from $400 to $1000 each. We NEVER allow anything but first quality ammo in them. We also don't offer our reloaded ammo to others. We don't carry the necessary insurance nor federal ammunition manufacturing licenses that would make such an action legal or advisable.

Eye and ear protection is a must. Always. I've had a 44 mag splashback from a 25 yard range and clip the top of my ear. The immediate stinging in my left ear was complemented with blood all over my fingers. A few inches the other direction would surely have caused eye damage...except I always wear shooting glasses. I was wearing 32 dB foam ear plugs, thus my bare ears were exposed to the splashback. I add muffs to the foam ear plugs when shooting the .454 Casull. Bone jarring and fun.

[Myrddin]

The Texas Rangers carried .41 Magnum revolvers for a long time. The current service weapon in favor is the 357SIG. It is a necked down .40 S&W driving a .357 bullet. The ballistics are similar to a .357 Magnum revolver, but the semi-auto capability allows a quick change of magazines.

[Myrddin]

The new S&W 500 Magnum is rated at 2600 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The hottest .454 Casull from Corbon is rated at 1902 ft-lbs.

[Shooter 2.5]

Good for you. I noticed that my brass wasn't as clean as I wished and I'm in the process of going back with corn instead of just the walnut. I hope to use the second polishing to get a mirror finish.

[Lancey Howard]

Bumped and bookmarked.
There is a lot of information on this thread, and I am grateful. Now.... would you be so kind as to explain what "gauge" means as it pertains to shotguns? What is the difference between a 10 gauge, a 12 gauge, and a 22 gauge shotgun? I have always wondered why the lower the gauge, the bigger the barrel.
Thanks.

[Chemist_Geek]

Now.... would you be so kind as to explain what "gauge" means as it pertains to shotguns? What is the difference between a 10 gauge, a 12 gauge, and a 22 gauge shotgun? I have always wondered why the lower the gauge, the bigger the barrel.

Sure. Gauge is the number of lead balls of a diameter which would fit into the barrel, which weigh one pound. Since the density of lead is fixed, the only variable is the diameter of the lead ball.

So, a 12 gauge shotgun has a barrel with a diameter such that a lead ball which would just fit through, would weigh 1/12 of a pound. A 20 gauge's barrel diameter, each ball would weigh 0.05 pounds. And so forth.

[Shooter 2.5]

A gauge is how many lead balls of that size per pound would fit into the barrel.