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LIVE THREAD: Estrada Filibuster DAY 2
http://www.freerepublic.com ^ | February 13, 2003

Posted on 02/13/2003 7:55:05 AM PST by Howlin









TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; denydenydeny; denyingthevote; disenfranchise; estrada; filibuster; hatch; obstruction; obstructionists; obstrunction; partisanpolitics; racists; rats; rattricks
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To: hoosiermama
I called mine, but since I have dopey Dodd and LIEberman, I doubt that it helped any.

Yes, there IS such a thing as you suggest ( read Arne's posts ) , but I doubt that the president will do that.

1,481 posted on 02/13/2003 11:38:06 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Howlin
Begin the recall drive against senate dumbocrats
1,482 posted on 02/13/2003 11:39:05 PM PST by joyful1
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To: hoosiermama
Couldn't sleep either. Reading Arne's post caused me to write to a number of senators asking them why they're allowing their fellow senators, Patrick Leahy
Ted Kennedy, and Barbara Boxer, to damage their careers by these senators hypocrisy. We don't need them all to change just those who still have a conscience, that should be at least 10.

1,483 posted on 02/13/2003 11:49:07 PM PST by swheats
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To: nopardons
Bush won't let the Democrats change the Constitution to make any measure subject to a 60 vote majority.

Nopardons, there are always 41 Democrats who will thwart ANY Bush initiative on order. There aren't 8 honest, duty-bound Democrats in the U.S. Senate. They've decided they'll use the filibuster to regain majority status, and that needs to be vigorously punished through the institutional powers of the Executive and the review of the Courts. Tom Daschele is NOT the President of the United States. He is NOT the Senate Majority Leader. He needs a smackdown. Recess appointments, agency audits and funding reviews, bully pulpit persuasion and the VETO pen destroy the filibuster when 1/3 of the obstructing party are up for re-election every two years.

By the way ... where is the Constitutional authority for the fillibuster? It's Senate tradition and Chamber rules, but I'd sick Ted Olson on the practice and see what the Supreme Court says about this amendment to the majority vote standard . Seriously, do you know how this thing has been accepted as sacrosanct?

The Senate needs a major housecleaning. Byrd needs to go, but so do Stevens and Dominici. These guys have no connection to us in any way, shape or form. They have no connection to the world.

1,484 posted on 02/13/2003 11:53:47 PM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
I, again, agree utterly and completely with you. The only problem is, that Bush ain't gonna do what he should. So, knowing that, the choice is that Frist should have played this one straight and he didn't.

There are 51 GOP Senators. Three Dems, so far, are with them. That's 54 and we need 6 more. If this had been played right, we probably could get the 6. Who ? I don't know , but I can guess; so can you.

1,485 posted on 02/14/2003 12:01:27 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
Look, I agree with you; however, President Bush isn't quite the " BIG DAWG " , who fights back. I wish he were.

Behind that polite public manner is a ruthless no holds barred man who has been grossly underestimated his entire political career. Make no mistake, when Dubya decides on a goal, nothing will get in his way; as long as it is legal. When this is over, Estrada will be confirmed and the Democraps will look like fools.

1,486 posted on 02/14/2003 12:02:43 AM PST by connectthedots
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To: connectthedots
Now, that I can fully agree with !

Have you read Frum's " THE RIGHT MAN " ? It's a great read. :-)

1,487 posted on 02/14/2003 12:04:37 AM PST by nopardons
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To: 3catsanadog
They need to show that even though they will fight to the death to allow the continuation of baby-killing, despite that wee little flaw, liberals are oh so kind, oh so compassionate, oh so understanding, oh so tolerant, oh so giving (of your money and mine), oh so worried about the poor, oh so concerned about the innocents fortunate enough to have left the womb.

You know, that's exactly what Dennis Miller asked Phil Donahue last night, if maybe his pacifist attitude had anything to do with trying to get a Karma pass on his support of abortion rights as a life-long Catholic. It was AWESOME, nailed Phil right between the eyes!!!

1,488 posted on 02/14/2003 12:16:41 AM PST by BreitbartSentMe
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To: swheats
Those Democrats are gone. Zell Miller had six years, and that was enough. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben Nelson retired too.

These guys were Governors, men of action, negotiators and doers and winners. Senators are overhead and burden and amoral sluts.

So, what do we do? If ANY fillibuster by the Democrat minority is guaranteed to be impervious ... the citizen will demonstrated last November has been sheetcanned. Senate elections are now irrelevant, unless the balance of power will slip under the 41 vote minority veto.

No party, over time, has abused the fillibuster process like the RATS are doing now. A fillibuster is generally employed to force a negotiation or accomodation on a bill. It has never been used to completely thwart the Constitutional obligation to vote on an Executive appointment. These guys are bad, bad news. They need to be squashed without mercy.

If you remember, Clinton used the recess appointments to place nominees whose consent would have been voted DOWN on an open, full body vote. He was thwarting the Senate prerogative with his recess appointments. Miguel Estrada is being thwarted by THAT SAME PARTY by being denied his open, full body vote. He'd be APPROVED by a full body vote.

There's a little problem with the Democrats and their fealty to the Constitution and our rights, IMO. They're evolving into a more ruthless bagman syndicate every year. It's the money! Trillions every year, and the Dems want the control, and their useless brood want their payday.

Uh, the gloves are off as far as I'm concerned. I am confident that EVERY judicial nominee that Bush has forwarded to the Senate has been fully vetted to ensure a postive approval in an open Senate floor vote. They've already culled the herd. Don't expect ANY open floor votes from Tom Daschele and his fascist thugs. This is a battle for the power nexus of the Federal Government, because if the Supreme Court rules on Affirmative Action, Non profit tax status, extra-family and anti-human abortion programs, school funding outside Union control, Beck rule abuse etc etc etc ... they're DONE. Only the control of moving our money to their voters sustains these creeps.

So, they'll pervert the Fillibuster gentleman's rule to negate any Executive and House priority. They have everything to lose, every power base, every funding source, every entitlement constituency, THEIR DAMN JOBS and subsequent payday.

So, a recess appointment of a nominee who - if he wasn't stiffed by a minority procedure - would pass approval on an open floor vote is a just, honorable appointment in my judgement. I see a moral, ethical and righteous difference between a recess appointment of a Miguel Estrada by Bush, and the recess appointment of a Bill Lann Lee by Clinton.

Bush may not do it, but he should do it, and I'll nicely debate the same people here who regarded the McCain-Feingold signature as a greater betrayal than Judas narcing out Christ or Jim McMahon wearing his Bears jersey at the WH ceremony after the PACKERS won the Super Bowl.

I talked to numerous Bears fans at the Lambeau game this year, and we agreed that Jim McMahon needs an ass kicking for that mortal sin.

The Democrats are a more imminent threat to America than the Islamists. After Jim McMahon, who is enemy number one.

1,489 posted on 02/14/2003 12:29:52 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: ALOHA RONNIE
I've missed all the action!

Look at the size of this thread!!
1,490 posted on 02/14/2003 12:33:00 AM PST by Joy Angela
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To: ArneFufkin
Arne I hear you, call me an optimist, a dreamer, an idealist~whatever it takes.

I just believe that Bush has been dealt a weird hand and he has played it til now masterfully in accomplishing his agenda in spite of terrorism. I'm not giving up on him and this administration also restoring the Senate to it's purpose and vision.

I have to quote here, that the angel is still riding in the whirlwind directing this storm.

Who knows maybe Zell Miller or some senator can see the writing on the wall and act now, rather than later out of office to make a difference.

One thing for sure, we cannot govern by recess appointments and exective orders.

In comparison I'd say Jim McMahon would welcome an @$$ whooping if he had the choice of dealing with Bush's problems or his own. LOL
1,491 posted on 02/14/2003 12:41:06 AM PST by swheats
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To: swheats
First, the Jim McMahon thing: NO Packer player should allow a guy, who threw ONE PASS for his Super Bowl Ring, to wear a Bears jersey in their presence. Can I get a witness?

Two of my pals and I ran into Packer icon Leroy Butler at the gate at Orlando airport last fall, he was on the same flight to MSP as us. Naturally, we offered the beauty and wisdom of our company, just because we give give give. He's a great guy, we dogged him on Detroit's David Sloan outrunning him and we paid homage that we were at the Raiders game where he undertook the FIRST Lambeau Leap.

But, I had to point out to Mr. Butler that I pinpointed the start of the Packer decline as being the White House Super Bowl event where Packer players allowed Jim McMahon to wear his number 9 Bears jersey without confrontation - and Bill Clinton glommed with bisexual vigor onto his presence. Check please: At a Green Bay Packers Super Bowl celebration, a Bears jersey? Ray Nitchke would have cold cocked him, and Butler should have stopped the crime, and he agreed with us. Perhaps because he felt threatened, but I think we were cracking wise and talking truth. We smack talked his protege Deion Sanders too. He bought us a round of Heineken beers, and my pal accused him that his salary cap number was 1.8 times his salary, so his purchase should have been Chivas or Don Julio Blanco. Ingrates R Us.

He did appreciate the story where former Packer Walter Stanley was arrested going 105 on a 55 road, and gave his name to the cop as "Ken Stills" - his teammate!!! Stills showed up for Training camp the next year and was arrested on arrival from a warrant for missing his court date. LOL! That's teamwork. Regarding this coup of Senate midgets and geezers, we govern with the tools at our disposal. The Senate minority is thwarting the Constitutional advise and consent mandate. They've rendered the Separation of Powers system null and void, because they don't like the probable outcome.

Do we storm the chamber and arrest Barbara Mikulski as an enemy combatant? No, she can't climb up to use the toilets in the federal jails. Do we arrest Ron Wyden or Mark Dayton? No, they'll have performance anxiety standing with the other cons at the toilet. Do we sit in a fetal position and lament our unjust treatment? That's fun, but you get a stiff neck after a day or two, I've tried.

So, you use your weaponry to defend your interests and promote your mandate. We need judges on the Federal bench, we NEED CONSERVATIVE judges there, we EARNED the right to put our judges there through our wins in 2000 and 2002, and the RATS are engaging in an assault on our representative rights through their actions right now. Let's nuke them with a mass hatching type assault of Judicial appointments, Executive agency appointments and various other proclamations on the EPA, IRS, HUD and INS that suit our fancy.

Why not? They've made this a street fight for survival, and biting, headbutting and kicks to the groin are expected and unlikely to be sanctioned. I'm sporting "foreign objects" I'll employ to steal the match.

I want two secret weapons, Michael Chertkoff and a recruited Rudy Giuliani to do a thorough, open audit of the Clinton Justice Department. Every prosecution, every IRS audit, every fart and cake party and inter-office sex liasion broken down and scrutinized. Low key in execution, mandated by the a vital Executive management obligation, and fearless in their indictment and prosecution efforts, GOP or Dem, should criminality be uncovered. Criminality WILL be uncovered.

That is the main power that Bush weilds as CEO. If the kids are laying their lives on the line in every God forsaken camel-stop to protect an American civilization treasure, let's be sure that the treasure is untainted by scandal and corruption and treason. The Democrats who today oppose George W Bush and are working to craft a vulnerable, unstable America are THE CRIMINALS of the 90s.

That's what I'd advise President Bush. The moral imperative needs to be authenticated. Clinton corruption cannot be abided, for some bogus bipartisan goal, if our thing is worth fighting and dying for.

I'd also advise him that it is "NU CLE ER" and he's way too nice to Ted Kennedy.

1,492 posted on 02/14/2003 3:36:11 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: swheats
SOme on said yesterday that three dem would definatly be voting for cloture. If you hear who they are let me know. I'm going to try to start a chart over the week end. List all dem senators. THose who have spoken against Estrada, those who have commited to cloture and those on the fence. There is a list of those on the fence, but some have spoken against him.
1,493 posted on 02/14/2003 6:25:30 AM PST by hoosiermama (Prayers for all)
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To: hoosiermama
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/843256/posts

Day 3 Thread
1,494 posted on 02/14/2003 7:26:19 AM PST by BaBaStooey
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To: nicmarlo
I find it ironic that it's not Bush and the pubbies who look like rascists, but the Rats.....do you think this is why Bush put forth Estrada first?

You got it exactly right! After the Lott fiasco (what a blessing in disguise) Bush was on the defensive, at least the public perception. His speech denoucing Lott took of heat, but now with this Estrada nomination, how the tables have turned. Somehow when Pickering comes up again, I think we'll be better positioned.
1,495 posted on 02/14/2003 7:46:57 AM PST by votelife
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To: ArneFufkin
THIS IS NOT OVER!

EVERY ONE, ESP FLORIDA FREEPERS, Sen Bill Nelson's staff this morning said that "he met with Estrada yesterday and is leaning towards supporting him." That means that everyone needs to start calling him now!

Phone: 202-224-5274
Fax: 202-228-2183

http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm


1,496 posted on 02/14/2003 7:58:39 AM PST by votelife
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To: woodyinscc
The battle has just begun!

EVERY ONE, ESP FLORIDA FREEPERS, Sen Bill Nelson's staff this morning said that "he met with Estrada yesterday and is leaning towards supporting him." That means that everyone needs to start calling him now!

Phone: 202-224-5274
Fax: 202-228-2183

http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm


1,497 posted on 02/14/2003 7:59:33 AM PST by votelife
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To: hoosiermama
EVERY ONE, ESP FLORIDA FREEPERS, Sen Bill Nelson's staff this morning said that "he met with Estrada yesterday and is leaning towards supporting him." That means that everyone needs to start calling him now!

Phone: 202-224-5274
Fax: 202-228-2183

http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm


1,498 posted on 02/14/2003 8:01:55 AM PST by votelife
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To: hoosiermama
I believe it is Breaux, Ben Nelson, and Zell Miller for sure will vote for cloture.

1,499 posted on 02/14/2003 8:10:56 AM PST by swheats
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To: ArneFufkin
That is the main power that Bush weilds as CEO. If the kids are laying their lives on the line in every God forsaken camel-stop to protect an American civilization treasure, let's be sure that the treasure is untainted by scandal and corruption and treason. The Democrats who today oppose George W Bush and are working to craft a vulnerable, unstable America are THE CRIMINALS of the 90s.

I totally agree with everything you're saying here. Bennett said it best this morning, Senator from Utah, that the dems are championing the Constitution, but they should be reading from the Senate rules on this one.

You mentioned about Clinton having the players at the White House, once you stated that it put things in perspective. Everything dealing with that administration was out of order, without honor and unaware of common decency. Dennis Miller said it best that Bill Clinton was a mirror that reflected the culture at that time.

1,500 posted on 02/14/2003 8:42:03 AM PST by swheats
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