Pair get 8 years for serving beer at party

Washington Times ^ | 2-12-03 | Washington Times

[ambrose]

CHARLOTTESVILLE (AP)

[MrLeRoy]

I think 8 years was too much.

Agreed.

I think 90 days was too little.

90 is OK by me---but 180 would have been OK by me, too.

I am neither a judge nor a prosecutor, but I think the judge was doing what was legally in his purview. People may disagree with the reasoning behind it, but it was still procedurally and legally correct.

Agreed.

But even if he gave them 90 days, there would likely be those who claimed that was too much.

I would have disagreed with them. These parents are in need of eye-opening jail time.

[TLBSHOW]

“It’s extraordinary. We’re shocked really,” Lawrence told Circuit Judge Paul M. Peatross Jr., who agreed to hear arguments this morning. Lawrence gave Peatross assurances that someone from the commonwealth’s attorney’s office would support the defendants’ requests to reduce the bail.

[JCEccles]

This collective guilt baloney has got to go.

It isn't collective guilt that is at issue, but collective risk--risk of death and serious injury. The community should not have to tolerate that risk. The judge has a duty to push the responsibility back onto the plate of those created the risk.

[TLBSHOW]

OH BY THE WAY

A 19-year-old man found guilty of supplying alcohol to the July 16 party that Brittany Bishop attended received 30 days in jail and 200 hours of community service. Another teen received 10 days in jail and 100 hours of community service.

[MrLeRoy]

The judge has a duty to push the responsibility back onto the plate of those created the risk.

Do you think 8 years was a more fitting sentence than the prosecutor's recommendation for 90 days?

[LibertarianInExile]

That is the funniest response to this stupid argument I've seen on here! Well said!

[Dan from Michigan]

What kind of fascist insanity is that? Or is this from The Onion?

Oh, it's real alright. Unfortunatly, most states in this country have a ridiculous view toward alchohol, which makes it such a forbidden fruit and a rite of passage for kids and young adults 14-20.

[Dan from Michigan]

The sentence is ridiculous. 8 years? I could kill someone and get a lesser sentence than that.

These parents deserve maybe a TICKET and fine.

[JCEccles]

Yes, I do. The judge was making a point and acting within the sentencing guidelines.

Do I believe eight years is too long for a first-time offender? Yes. But being fully aware of how probation and parole work, I also understand that they will almost certainly be out in two years or less. The point is made, and a just sentence will be served. That sounds about right.

In my estimation it is the large number of teens involved that makes this an especially egregious offense. The prosecutor's recommendation might have made sense if the case had involved only a half dozen or so teens. But 60 teens? The parents might just as well have fired 60 rounds from a rifle randomly down the length of a busy interstate highway. To plead for leniency because no bullet found a target is foolish. Statistically, it was a miracle no one was killed.

[LincolnLover]

Granted, these parents exhibited poor judgement here, but this judge is off the reservation with his sentence.

What if, for example, the same judge was in "a hurry" to get to court the next day and didn't come to a full stop at a 4-way?

If a cop witnessing this pulled him over and issued him a citation, would it be just to expose the judge to the maximum penalty for this offense in part because, say, someone had died recently after being hit by someone who ignored an area stop sign?

I thought that taking unnecessary and/or excessive liberties with the applicaton of and interpretation of the law was a trait that we conservatives opposed. Maybe I am wrong...

[Under the Radar]

CJ, I am as anti-libertarian and Conservative as they come, but I have to agree that 8 years for serving beer to minors is too much.

[LibertarianInExile]

You've already been put on notice you AND your kids deserve to die (or at least be crippled) just for agitating against this stupid ruling...

"If the world were a just place only you and your children would get killed or crippled by teenage drivers who became drunk by the irresponsible actions of parents such as these scofflaws that you defend."

So watch out! Might tell you you're gonna go to hell for standing up and facing him in his radiance in a sec.

And then what? What if this poster's right? Quit, quit while you're ahead! Before it's too late!

[MrLeRoy]

Do I believe eight years is too long for a first-time offender? Yes. But being fully aware of how probation and parole work, I also understand that they will almost certainly be out in two years or less.

I hope you're right.

Statistically, it was a miracle no one was killed.

Share with us the details of your statistical analysis.

[Under the Radar]

Very well put, sir.

[bmwcyle]

The judge has the final word. If you can do the time......... You "Libs" (not being too much different than our modern day liberals) have to second guess criminal action punishment everyday of your life or you are not happy.

[MrLeRoy]

The judge has the final word. If you can do the time......... You "Libs" (not being too much different than our modern day liberals) have to second guess criminal action punishment everyday of your life or you are not happy.

None of that answers my question: "Do you think 8 years was a more fitting sentence than the prosecutor's recommendation for 90 days?"

[Under the Radar]

An 8 year sentence, which is by law a legal prison term for the offense, is too harsh for people endangering children not their own in your opinion.

Let me see if I understand this position. We want the State to make sure that other people treat our children a certain way, and we will enforce that desire with jail time, if need be. Oh, and we call ourselves Conservatives today, because it suits us.

What, pray tell, has happened to the concept of individual, personal responsibility? I don't want the state cracking skulls for me, thank you very much. If I have a problem with the way that some guy handled a party that my children were invited to, I would deal with the matter directly, not call the cops.

I had better go lie down now; it makes me feel queasy when I agree with Libertarians.

[Defiant]

Defiant?

Interesting chosen name.

Good start, attacking something irrelevant. You must be a liberal ad hominem debater.

Just sentence? Wonder what the dead girl thinks about it from her eternal perspective.

I don't know, why don't you channel her. While you're at it, you could ask Jesus what car he drives and other ridiculous questions. I'm sure she spends her time in heaven contemplating legislation to make super-criminals out of parents who supply alcohol at parties. Maybe it's one big legislature up there where everyone contemplates how they died and follows the lives of everyone who acts in a way they disapprove, an ethereal Nanny State with power to see what everyone is doing and say "tsk, tsk" from on high. But I doubt that's what the dead girl is doing. Doesn't sound like my idea of heaven.

Wonder what her parents think about it.

I'm sure they disapprove of adults supplying alcohol to minors, as I do. Whether they approve of an 8 year sentence, I don't know, and in any event, we don't let someone biased by personal experience decide the judicial fate of criminals or other litigants.

I suspect if it keeps one of those youth at the party from becoming alcoholic and crashing into yet another youth to the youth's death--the sentence will have been more than just.

This is not knowable, but what you are positing is that sending these two to jail for 8 years will save a life, but that sending them to jail for 6 months might not. That is a speculative stretch, and I am inclined to believe that a 6 month stint would do wonders to send a message to that community without destroying irrevocably the lives of both parents of a family whose actions, while dangerous and stupid, did not result in any harm to anyone.

I would be pissed as hell at these people if they served alcohol to my kids without my permission, and I would demand that they be prosecuted. But the point of the prosecution would be to send a message to the community, to punish the wrong-doers, and to deter such conduct in the future. I think those goals could be accomplished without tearing at least 3 lives apart.

Of course, the first part of the brain to be anesthetized by alcohol is the judgement center that decides what is too much/not enough; what is too close/not close enough etc.

Here it comes, more liberal attack methods.

Did you have anything to drink before responding to this post?

Badabing. Kapow. Funny guy. Did I slur my letters?

No, I'm not a teetottler. But I've counseled enough alcohol groups and individuals--I support the judge's decision. . . . though I think he should have let the community know his attitude toward such things beforehand. Nevertheless, the couple knew the law. They said F***-it to the law and to the lives and responsibilities of the teens at the party as well as to their own responsibilities as adults and role models. It's quite fitting to me for the law to turn around and respond in kind. They have reaped merely what they've sown.

Sometimes, the law is an ass. Sometimes people are. Your post is an example of both.

So, you've counseled alcoholics and now you are an expert on sentencing? I don't think so. It sounds to me like you are someone whose experience with drunks has made you into a hardened societal nanny, unforgiving and merciless. 8 years is what people who kill, rape and stab get. Now it's for people who hold a party and "serve" alcohol to minors.

The length of the sentence, in light of the parents' reasonable expectation of the nature of the offense, in light of the principles underlying criminal punishment, and in light of the relative sentences handed out to much more dangerous criminals, is what makes this sentence unjust. You can live in your draconian world if you wish; I choose not to, and I doubt many other people would, either. This is still a nation of free and fair people, but sentences like this are examples of how we are heading toward a different existence if we are not careful.

[redheadtoo]

My first thought was that although this couple broke the law and deserve punishment, eight years was much to excessive. Then I though what if they had served alcohol to a child of mine?

Parents all over the country are trying to raise their children to be moral, law abiding, adults and having their efforts undermined by other so called "parents".

Serving alcohol to a teenage girl could result in her being sexually molested. And teenagers, with a few drinks in them, could easily have an accident on the way home resulting in death or disability for the driver, passenger, or other innocent motorists.

How are parents expected to keep their children safe when there are adults in the community willing to help them break the law? Although this is not an alcohol related case I can't help thinking of the woman who sneaked her step-son's girlfriend out of school, drove her across state lines, and helped the underage girl get an abortion. In that case the adult only got a slap on the wrist.

The punishment is harsh but not undeserved. Perhaps, it will cause other people to refrain from supplying alcohol to children, or deciding that they have the right to over ride the parental authority of others.

[Under the Radar]

And where in the hell are their parents, I would never let my son or daughter attend a party like this.

It took 101 posts for someone to finally note this, on a Conservative website.