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FBI Destroyed Possible McVeigh Evidence
AP | 2/13/03

Posted on 02/12/2003 11:17:50 PM PST by kattracks

WASHINGTON, Feb 13, 2003 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- The FBI and prosecutors ordered the destruction in 1999 of evidence from a bank robbery they once suspected linked Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh to white supremacists who were threatening before McVeigh's bombing to attack the government, documents show.

The evidence included a surveillance videotape of a bank robbery by some of the supremacists that occurred in Ohio five months before the bombing. The FBI lab compared the tape to pictures of McVeigh, but concluded a match was "inconclusive," internal memos show.

The 1999 destruction order, obtained by The Associated Press, was unusual because at the time McVeigh and one of the bank robbers had legal appeals pending.

And the government knew, but had turned aside, an offer from one of the bank robbers, Peter Kevin Langan, to provide information about possible other conspirators in the McVeigh case. Langan and his lawyer claim he still possesses Oklahoma City information the government hasn't heard.

FBI officials said Wednesday they were still trying to determine whether the videotape and other evidence was actually destroyed, but remain confident all those responsible for the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building have been punished.

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: april19; destroyedevidence; fbi; okc; okcbombing; oklahomacity; timmcveigh
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To: kattracks
I think they should investigate whether Clinton ordered this evidence destroyed. I'm sure he didn't want to make it look like he should have known about the OKC bombing before it happened.
21 posted on 02/13/2003 6:14:13 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: Abar
Of course they destroyed the evidence. After all, the last thing the FBI would want is to be reminded of the fact that they knew about the operation before it took place.

And let's not forget about the fact that they ignored others who were involved. The Iraqis, for instance.

22 posted on 02/13/2003 6:23:29 AM PST by Reactionary
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To: honway
From Gary Hunt:

"I was not in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. I first heard of the bombing while on the phone with someone who claimed to be John Stadtmiller. He asked me if I had heard of the bombing in Oklahoma City, he said that hundreds had been killed. I shrugged it off as another claim of millions of troops on the Mexican border. After the conversation, I turned the television on and the news reports had already begun.

Except for passing through, perhaps getting gas or eating a meal, none of which I can say I recall, I had never been to Oklahoma City until I responded to the invitations later that year. I had spoken with Dr. Millar, for the first time, AFTER the bombing, and as a result of the suggestions by the press that Elohim City was involved. I did, however, visit Elohim, introducing Cash and two of the defense team members to Dr. Millar, and then remained at Elohim for a very comfortable stay of about a week.

The extent of my knowledge of the OKC bombing is based upon investigation and review of existing reports. I am not now, nor was I ever "John Doe #3".

I hope this clears thing up. Of all those who have accused me of such, only Thompson and Cooper refuse to review the available information. But, then, of course, they have never made a mistake, have they?"

23 posted on 02/13/2003 6:28:07 AM PST by honway
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To: aristeides; honway
Maybe some bureaucrats feel threatened by leaks about a Middle Eastern connection?you got that right!

so far, nothing the administration has offered to justify the war on Iraq is resonating with the public.

you'd sure think that a documented Iraqi connection to "terror in the heartland" would take rummy & the boys over the top?

why can't they connect the dots?

24 posted on 02/13/2003 7:02:06 AM PST by thinden
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To: thinden
why can't they connect the dots?

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is the dot no one wants connected, in my opinion.

25 posted on 02/13/2003 7:39:09 AM PST by honway
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To: kattracks
Hard Left's "Right-Wing" Kin

A version of the "phantom cell" design was used by accused bank robbers Richard Lee Guthrie and Peter Kevin Langan, who were arrested in January and charged with a two-year string of 18 bank robberies in seven states. Guthrie and Langan claimed to belong to an underground network called the "Aryan Republican Army." "If you ever have studied the IRA [Irish Republican Army], you will understand more about ... guerrilla organization," Guthrie told reporters from jail. "You will understand what is eventually coming to this country."

Guthrie also claimed that an April 1st bank robbery in Spokane, Washington was the work of a "phantom cell." The robbers, who were photographed wearing fatigues, left behind a note claiming to belong to the "Phineas Priesthood," a title conferred upon Aryan enforcers of "racial purity." As a diversion, the robbers detonated a pipe bomb at offices of the Spokane Spokesman-Review newspaper shortly before raiding the bank. "That was one of the cell groups," Guthrie told reporters. "I recognized it. All the patterns were correct."

To some, it will seem curious that members of a secretive underground movement would discuss their tactics so freely with a hostile press. But the case of Guthrie and Langan is fraught with such oddities. According to the Los Angeles Times, Richard Guthrie has been under Secret Service scrutiny since 1991, when he allegedly threatened then-President George Bush. To keep tabs on Guthrie, federal agents recruited a close friend to act as an informant -- none other than Peter Langan, whom the feds sprung from a Georgia jail cell in 1993. At the time, Langan was awaiting trial for robbery.

Guthrie is a court-martialed former sailor who left the Navy in 1983 after an unsuccessful attempt to join the elite Navy SEALs. Langan, whose father was a CIA officer, has listed his occupation as "revolutionary" on financial affidavits. In the apartment the duo rented in Columbus, Ohio, investigators found pipe bombs, handguns, police uniforms, wigs, and a self-produced videotape entitled The Aryan Republican Army Presents: The Armed Struggle Underground. A masked figure in the video describes the group's objectives: "Eliminate the government, from the federal government to the county seats. Exterminate Hymie [a derogatory reference to Jews]. Repatriate all non-whites to their homes. Return the country to the Bible...."

Scripted Role?

Although the press has had access to Guthrie, Langan is being held in isolation at an undisclosed location. He narrowly missed death in the gun battle that took place during his January 18th arrest, when one of the shots fired at him by federal agents grazed his scalp. According to his attorney, Langan believes that his arrest was actually an assassination attempt and that his earlier dealings with the feds have led to his present problems. Though this contention is entirely self-serving, the accumulated oddities in the matter of Guthrie and Langan might reasonably provoke the suspicion that they were playing a scripted role.

The robberies for which Guthrie and Langan stand accused netted an estimated $500,000, at least half of which is believed to have been funneled to remnants of the "Order," a terrorist offshoot of the Aryan Nations which conducted its own campaign of robbery, counterfeiting, and murder in the mid-1980s. Robert Matthews, who organized and led the Order, perished in a standoff with federal officials on Washington's Whidbey Island in December 1984.

26 posted on 02/13/2003 7:59:35 AM PST by honway
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To: honway; aristeides; Lion's Cub; Fred Mertz; SharpEye
iirc, it was alleged that hunt, lyon, and j.d. cash were all connected. some considered them to be putting out disinfo.

others speculated they were gummit informants. hunt was accused by some of being in OKC on 4/19/95 in the company of "badge man" which photos were posted on this forum..

these two recent AP pieces certainly rehash J.D. Cash's early reports on the bombing.

interesting repsonse hunt made on the forum. I feel pretty certain he'll be dropping by to "test the waters" on these recent AP articles. wonder what his take will be?

27 posted on 02/13/2003 8:10:31 AM PST by thinden
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To: kattracks
Maybe some of it is in hiding to protect a life or a job.
28 posted on 02/13/2003 8:16:18 AM PST by bmwcyle (Semper Gumby - Always Flexable)
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To: thinden
McCurtain Daily Gazette
March 10, 2002

In Langan's five-page response, the inmate points out that some of the material the government wants to destroy could be relevant to a future trial of Nichols in Oklahoma and additional prosecutions in the Mueller family murder case in Arkansas - murders, Langan hints, that involved ARA gang members.

Interviewed by telephone, Langan said he believes that once the materials are destroyed, he will have lost his best bargaining chips for any immunity deal with federal prosecutors. He is seeking a plea bargain that would allow him to swap the names of persons who helped Timothy McVeigh bomb the federal building in Oklahoma City for a sharp reduction in his own sentence.

It's obviously a high-risk gamble that could snare him, as well.

Independently, the Gazette obtained an itemized inventory of the materials the government now wants to destroy.

Items listed include a large cache of weapons, fake ID's, explosive devices such as pipe bombs and grenades, bomb-making components, disguises, fake US Marshall badges and ID's, shirts and ball-caps with FBI and ATF logos, KKK and Aryan Nation material, radio scanners, a substantial inventory of blank birth certificates and driver license forms, and "how to" books on terrorist tactics.

The Gazette has also obtained a page from a small notebook the FBI found in the pant pocket of Richard Guthrie, an ex-Navy SEAL turned Aryan Nation's soldier.

Guthrie, dead now, was described by former associates as a deranged, cold- blooded killer who played a central role in the ARA's criminal activities.

Guthrie's notes list several contacts and phone numbers. On one critical page appears the address of a parking lot only two blocks north of the where the Murrah federal building once stood. Next to the address is the name: Dennis Mahon, the only person who refused to testify before a grand jury that looked into the Oklahoma City bombing, citing his Fifth Amendment rights.

Mahon is currently a member of California white supremacist Tom Metzger's neo- Nazi gang, White Area Resistance (WAR).

In August 1994 the Tulsa office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) opened an investi-gation into Mahon and WAR.

Their informant, Carol Howe, told her two BATF handlers, David E. Roberts and case agent Angela Finley Graham, that Mahon and fellow extremist Andreas Strassmeir were casing federal buildings in Oklahoma with the idea of blowing them up.

Records obtained from other law enforcement agencies corroborate evidence of an ATF plan to raid Elohim City and make arrests.

But six weeks before the OKC bombing, those plans were blocked by FBI Special- Agent-in-Charge of the Oklahoma City office, Bob Ricks.

Howe's BATF file indicates US Attorney Steve Lewis, in Tulsa, was also involved with Roberts during negotiations that eventually scrubbed the operation.

Langan to Name Names

Langan also made this chilling observation in his filing: "Persons who cooperated with the government as witnesses in my case were involved in multiple murders and conspiracy to commit multiple murders ... crimes that were known to the United States government but concealed from the defendant and the public."

Langan says he is in the process of making a "proffer," a legal maneuver allowing immunized testimony in a criminal trial. He told the Gazette that if subpoenaed and given immunity, he would testify at Nichols' trial.

The notion that Langan might be able deal himself out of prison, or at least into a reduced sentence, is not that far-fetched.

In 1993 the Secret Service hired Langan as an undercover informant. The deal bought Langan a ticket out of jail in Georgia, where he faced a 20-year sentence for robbery.

Terrorists' Storehouse Part Of Gazette's FOIA Requests

Columbus prosecutors admit there is a large amount of evidence covered in their destruction order request.

In the basement of the Columbus federal courthouse is a room measuring 15 x 20- feet with 15-foot height ceilings, prosecutors' reveal.

"The storage room is stacked almost ceiling-high ...with weapons, clothing, disguises worn, identities used, or tools used to rob banks; false-identity making equipment; bomb-making equipment; and instructional materials on conducting terrorist activities," records say.

A year ago, the Gazette obtained a privacy waiver from Langan. With this waiver, the newspaper submitted several requests under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) for copies of specific items the government took from Langan's car, storage lockers and house. The FBI responded to the requests, saying they had no record of ever having such evidence.

Based upon the brief inventory the Department of Justice submitted to the court in their motion, the materials the government wants permission to destroy are identical to the items this newspaper asked copies and photographs.

The Gazette has an appeal pending at the Department of Justice, asking for an order requiring the FBI to conduct a competent search and make copies and photographs available of some of the ARA property seized.

Trail Leads to Elohim City

During the telephone interview, Langan said, he "strongly suspects" one of the ARA's foot soldiers - former Elohim City resident, Kevin McCarthy - obtained blasting caps from McVeigh. Langan hinted they were the same ones used in the OKC bombing.

Langan said the FBI seized those blasting caps at the Columbus "safe house," The inmate suggested a comparison with those McVeigh stole from a Marion, Kan. blasting site with those found by the FBI.

The Gazette has also learned the FBI located an Arkansas driver's license in a storage locker the gang rented in Shawnee Mission, Kan. The license carries the name, "Robert Miller." This is the same name used as an alias for two decades by gun dealer Roger Moore, formerly of Royal, Ark.

A central theme of the 1997 bombing trials in Denver was that Nichols perpetrated the robbery of Roger Moore to finance the Oklahoma City attack. A substantial number of guns belonging to the Arkansas collector were found in Nichols' Kansas residence and ex-army pal Mike Fortier's trailer in Kingman, Ariz.

But if evidence found in ARA storage lockers matches with the Arkansas gun robbery, Nichols' lawyers could argue the robbery and the bombing were really ARA crimes.

Langan also indicated an interest in supplying Arkansas authorities with information about former gang members' roles in the murder of gun dealers Bill Mueller, 52, and wife Nancy, 28, along with Nancy Mueller's 8-year-old daughter, Sarah Powell.

In early January 1996, the Mueller family was surprised in their Tilly, Ark. home by armed assailants dressed as BATF agents. Six months later, their bodies were recovered from a bayou north of Russellville.

It would be three more years before a pair neo-Nazi skinheads with ties to Elohim City, Chevie Kehoe and Danny Lee, were convicted for the brutal crimes. The men had been part of another terrorist cell operating out of Elohim City - the Aryan People's Republic.

Some of the Muellers' friends still believe robbery was only one of the motives for the homicides. Several have suggested that the family was singled out for the particularly brutal execution because of what they knew about the Oklahoma City bombing.

A criminal investigator in Arkansas said the BATF and FBI learned Mueller had close ties to a militia group in western Arkansas, once frequented by Mahon and other radicals from Elohim City.

Indeed, Mueller's wife had been raised at an Identity compound in Arkansas and the couple also were known to have visited Elohim City.

Reporter Gene Worgis interviewed Mueller and his wife only days before they disappeared.

Worgis later wrote that the couple told him they were concerned that Elohim City roommates Andreas Strassmeir and Mike Brescia were going to harm them. Worgis photographed the couple at the gun show and published a story about their fears in a newsletter.

Strassmeir was never interviewed by the authorities about the Mueller murders. He crossed the Mexican border and returned to Germany the same week the Muellers' disappeared. That same month this reporter found Brescia hiding at the Pennsylvania residence of Mark Thomas, an Aryan Nation leader and fellow ARA member who subsequently pled guilty for roles in the bank robbery conspiracy.

Brescia also pleaded guilty to bank robbery and conspiracy charges.

Last March, Brescia and Kevin McCarthy were released from federal custody.

Today, only Langan, Mark Thomas, and former Elohim City resident, Scott Anthony Stedeford, are serving time for ARA-related crimes.

Richard Guthrie, the co-founder of the ARA, died in July 1996. The Covington, Ken., coroner ruled the cause of the death suicide by hanging.

A book manuscript the prisoner left behind listed the name of the gang's getaway driver as: "Tim, aka, Speedie."

The federal court in Columbus has not ruled on the government's motion or Langan's response.

29 posted on 02/13/2003 8:22:11 AM PST by honway
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To: All; OKCSubmariner
Last March, Brescia and Kevin McCarthy were released from federal custody.

Short sentence for Brescia. Armed robbery doesn't carry the same penalty as it used to.

30 posted on 02/13/2003 8:25:43 AM PST by honway
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To: All

MARCH 25, 1997



A. Suspect I. Posse Comitatus. and Iraq.

The defense believes that there is credible evidence that a conspiracy to bomb federal property, very possibly the Murrah Building, is centered in Elohim City and the persons described which are associated with Elohim City, but that the technical expertise and possibly financial support came from a foreign country, most likely Iraq, but possibly Iran or another state in the Middle East. Dennis Mahon has admitted publicly to received money from Iraq, approximately once a month. D.E. 2191 at 11. According to Mahon, the money started arriving in 1991 after he began holding rallies protesting the Persian Gulf War. Id.


From the Gazette:

Guthrie's notes list several contacts and phone numbers. On one critical page appears the address of a parking lot only two blocks north of the where the Murrah federal building once stood. Next to the address is the name: Dennis Mahon, the only person who refused to testify before a grand jury that looked into the Oklahoma City bombing, citing his Fifth Amendment rights.

31 posted on 02/13/2003 8:30:26 AM PST by honway
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To: All

Justice Department Wants to Destroy Possible OKC Evidence

32 posted on 02/13/2003 8:37:27 AM PST by honway
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To: kattracks
Ignore the evidence, ignore McVeigh, believe only your own instincts and the prognostication proffered by a horde of hucksters seeking to profit (monetarily and by fame) from this by way of books and videos and ENDLESS investigations ...
And if the U.S. government was allowed to get away with what happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge, there was an imminent threat to the lives of gun owners, McVeigh said. "I would have no problem standing up at trial and admitting [the bombing], saying, 'This was a necessity,'" McVeigh said.

But Jones wouldn't bite.

His responsibility was to give McVeigh the best possible defense, not a forum for his political views. He told McVeigh they would have to fight the charge, to force the government to prove McVeigh had bombed the building, and poke what holes they could in the evidence.

Furthermore, Jones simply did not believe MeVeigh's contention that he acted alone on April 19, 1995. Jones was convinced there was a much bigger conspiracy - one he imagined might well have involved international connections. He did not believe that one former Amy sergeant, with limited experience in explosives, could have pulled off everything McVeigh claimed, with only minimal assistance. McVeigh never wavered from his story: he alone drove the truck bomb to Oklahoma City, parked it in front of the building, and lit the fuses. And he alone made the decision to bomb the building during daylight hours, when it was full of people. Yet Jones seemed to think that McVeigh was sacrificing himself to protect others.

"There was no big conspiracy," McVeigh said.

"It was mostly me. The few friends [Nichols, Fortier]] who helped me were acting under duress, and none of them had any control over when I was going to blow up the Murrah Building."

Nevertheless, at various times Jones tried to link the bombing to associates of Terry Nichols in the Philippines; to Osama bin Laden and other Arab terrorists; to a German descendent of a Nazi Party leader; to neo-Nazis in Great Britain; to Rarnzi Yousef, mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing; and to associates of a white separatist group in the Oklahoma compound Elohim City.

All nonsense, McVeigh said.

But Jones was convinced that the FBI had never really investigated the bombing thoroughly, and he was determined to crack open a conspiracy. The lawyer traveled to the Philippines, trying to prove that Nichols had met with terrorists there. He flew to Israel to learn about Arab terrorists, and to Great Britain to discuss the Oklahoma City bombing with experts on the Irish Republican Army. Jones hired a Harvard professor, an expert on Arab terrorists, to work with the defense team.

Excerpted from McVeigh's book: An American Terrorist", pg 286
33 posted on 02/13/2003 8:44:32 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: thinden
J.D. Cash has been a major advocate of the "domestic terrorist" angle.

Jayna Davis has been a major advocate of the Middle Eastern connection.

In my opinion, they have played similar roles.

It is clear from the evidence that the bombing of the OKC Federal building was the work of "domestic" terrorists and Middle Eastern terrorists working together.

The list of "domestic terrorists" that were related either directly or indirectly to the group responsible for the bombing and who also were federal informants is staggering.

Andreas Strassmeir
Pete Langan
Robert Millar
Roger Moore
Peter Ward

I would include Gary Land and Robert Jacks as likely federal informants.

34 posted on 02/13/2003 8:51:56 AM PST by honway
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To: kattracks
The June 24 interview lasted a little over an hour, and the questioning was limited to issues outside the bombing evidence. McVeigh spoke with pride about his Army record, denied speculation that his parents' divorce had ruined his life, and also denied allegations that he had belonged to a militia group in Michigan.

Despite all the restrictions on the interview, Hackworth did manage to become the first journalist to ask McVeigh, point-blank and on-record, whether he bombed the Murrah Building.

"This is the question that everyone wants to know: did you do it?" Hackworth asked.

"The only way we can really answer that is we are going to plead not guilty," McVeigh said.

Hackworth pressed the issue.

"But you've got a chance right now to say, 'Hell, no!'" he said.

"We can't do that," McVeigh said.

"And if he says, 'Hell, no!' " Jones interjected, "the government isn't going to just say, 'Well, okay, that settles that.' "

It turned MeVeighs stomach to dodge Hackworth's question [McVeigh wanted to confess he did it himself]. It was just another missed opportunity to tell his story, to get his message out. But McVeigh kept his silence, much to his frustration.

and - Oklahoma Jones maintains his 'fantasy' about a 'conspiracy' in direct contradiction to McVeigh's revelations ...
The feds hadn't come up with any evidence of a wide-ranging conspiracy, but that did not stop the lawyer McVeigh sarcastically called "Sherlock Jones" from searching for one.

Jones was convinced that federal agents hadn't done enough to explore Elohim City, the white separatist group whose members lived in trailers in northern Oklahoma. Jones learned that Carol Howe, a former undercover informant for the ATF, told the feds that two men who frequented Elohim City had talked about bombing a federal building.

Jones alleged the two men - Dennis Mahon, a former KKK leader, from Tulsa, and Andreas Strassmeir, a German citizen whose grandfather helped form the original Nazi party - had had something to do with the bombing. But McVeigh denied the story. Yes, he admitted, he had met Strassmeir at a gun show in Tulsa; he had traded him a pair of military long underwear for a dagger. They had even discussed some political issues. But Strassmeir had no role in the bombing, and neither did Mahon, whom McVeigh said he'd never met.

Jones and the defense team maintained their skepticism about McVeigh's claims, especially after they gave McVeigh a polygraph test to examine the truthfulness of his statements about the crime.

The polygraph examiner found that "McVeigh was being truthful" ...

35 posted on 02/13/2003 8:56:26 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: _Jim
-Jim are you here to once again defend the terrorist network that participated in the OKC bombing?

Consider what a different world it might be today if you and your friends had put the energy and time you invested in debunking the Middle Eastern connection to the OKC bombing into seeking out and exposing the Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Iraq connection to OKC?

Had the truth been told, the War on Terrorism would have started in1995 and September 11,2001 would be just another date on the calender.

If you come here to try to justify your past role and clear your conscience, I am afraid it is not going to do you any good.

If the terrorist network that participated in the OKC bombing are successful in their plans for the next attack, it may hit home then. We shall see.

36 posted on 02/13/2003 9:08:17 AM PST by honway
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To: _Jim
Camera saw figure in bomb truck , Oklahoma City video is unclear, but it may show John Doe No. 2

The Kansas City Star October 28, 1995 Section: NATIONAL/WORLD Edition: METROPOLITAN Page: A4

Camera saw figure in bomb truck

Oklahoma City video is unclear, but it may show John Doe No. 2.

The Associated Press

OKLAHOMA CITY - Videotape from a surveillance camera captured a glimpse of a shadowy figure in the passenger seat of a bomb-laden Ryder truck minutes before it blew apart the federal building, a federal law enforcement source says.

The footage is not clear enough to identify anyone, but it adds to the body of evidence that a third figure - perhaps the long-sought John Doe No. 2 - took part in the attack with two other persons, the source said.

``There's a shape in there, but they can't see a face,'' the source said of footage, which was taken by a camera on a nearby apartment building. The camera picked up the shadowy passenger about three minutes before the bomb went off April 19 at the Murrah Federal Building.

The government says Timothy McVeigh drove to Oklahoma City in the truck, parked it in front of the federal building and made his getaway in a yellow Mercury Marquis. But prosecutors have given no indication that Terry Nichols, also charged in the case, was in Oklahoma City the day of the bombing.

Although a federal grand jury indicted only McVeigh and Nichols on murder and conspiracy charges, agents scoured the country for a third conspirator, known only as John Doe No. 2, who was portrayed in sketches distributed shortly after the blast.

Authorities later said that an innocent Army private resembled the sketches. But the drawings were never withdrawn. Moreover, the indictment accuses McVeigh and Nichols of acting with ``others unknown,'' and agents were still hunting for other conspirators.

A call Friday to Assistant U.S. Attorney Steve Mullins, a spokesman for the prosecution team, was not returned immediately.

Prosecutors repeatedly refused to discuss surveillance tape or other evidence in the case.

McVeigh's lawyer, Stephen Jones, said he had not seen the tape and could not comment.

A senior federal official in Washington said recently that agents currently searching did not expect to turn up another key player in the plot.

The law enforcement source, however, said many investigators remained convinced that John Doe No. 2 was still at large.

McVeigh and Nichols go on trial May 17.

37 posted on 02/13/2003 9:14:41 AM PST by honway
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To: _Jim
Camera saw figure in bomb truck

A clear conscience may start with a call by you to your buddies at DOJ demanding a release of the videotape of the Ryder truck described in the AP article.

38 posted on 02/13/2003 9:17:44 AM PST by honway
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What a huge shame that OKCSubmariner was banned.
39 posted on 02/13/2003 9:19:16 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: _Jim


I, HENRY C. GIBBONS, being duly sworn, do hereby state that I am an agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, having been so employed for 26 years and as such am vested with the authority to investigate violations of federal laws, including Title 18, United States Code.

Further, the Affiant states as follows:

1. The following information has been received by the Federal Bureau of Investigation on April 19-20, 1995.

2. On April 15, 1995, a powerful explosive device detonated in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, at approximately 9:00 a.m.

3. On April 19, 1995, a Special Agent of the FBI received information that a witness near the scene of the explosion saw to individuals running from the area of the Federal Building toward a brown Chevrolet truck prior to the explosion. The individuals were described as males, of possible Middle Eastern descent, approximately 6 feet tall, with athletic builds . One of the persons was further described as approximately 25-28 years old, having dark hair and a beard. The. second person was described as approximately 35-38 years old, with dark hair and a dark beard with gray in it. The second person was further described as wearing jogging pants, a black shirt and a black jogging jacket. A third person, not further identified, was believed to be in the brown Chevrolet truck.

4. At approximately 10;O a.m. on April 19, l995, an American Airlines flight left Oklahoma City en route to Chicago, Illinois. Aboard that flight was Abraham Abdallah Ahmed. Ahmed was scheduled to fly from Chicago to Rome, Italy and finally to Jordan.

5. American Airlines personnel-in Oklahoma City observed Ahmed prior to the flight and thought he was "acting nervous." They called the American Airlines national security office in Dallas, Texas, who in turned notified the Chicago office of the FBI.

6. Ahmed was interviewed by FBI Agent Chuck Miller upon his arrival in Chicago at about 12:30 p.m. Ahmed stated that he was travelling to Jordan to discuss his father's planned marriage. He also advised that he was born in Jordan but, was a naturalized United States citizen. He also said he was not scheduled to return to the United States until July 1595. Ahmed was observed to be approximately 5' 8" tall, weighing approximately 140 pounds, and wearing a moustache. His date of birth is July is, 1963.

7. The luggage of Ahmed continued on the connecting flight from Chicago to Home, Italy, while Ahmed remained in Chicago. The luggage was searched in Rome by Italian officials who discovered, inter alia: (a) multiple car radios (b) a substantial quantity of shielded and unshielded wire; (c) a small tool kit and other tools, consistent with use for both explosive devices and normal electronic repair or installation; (d) blue jogging pants and a blue jogging jacket with a floral pattern around the neck; (e) black sweatpants; (f) video cassette recorder; and (g) solder.

8. At the conclusion of the interview, Ahmed secured passage on a flight to London, England.

9. On April 20, 1335, British authorities informed the FBI Command Center in Washington, D.C., that they detained Ahmed in London and have determined that he is ineligible far entry into or transit through England and will be returned to the United States. Ahmed is expected to arrive at Washington- Dulles international Airport at 7:25 p.m. on April 20, 1995.

10. Based on the proximity in time of Ahmed's flight from Oklahoma City following the explosion to a destination outside the country, and his possession of multiple car radios, the wire, tool kit and tools, a blue jogging suit and black sweatpants, the testimony of Ahmed is required before a Federal Grand Jury investigating the April 19, 1995 explosion in Oklahoma City.

11. Ahmed's demonstrated intent to leave the country indicates that his testimony cannot be secured through the issuance of a subpoena.

Further your affiant sayeth not.

(signed) HENRY C. GIBBONS Special Agent Federal Bureau of Investigation

40 posted on 02/13/2003 9:22:25 AM PST by honway
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