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President Lincoln vindicated against the neo-reb liars.
1 posted on 02/12/2003 12:07:03 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: rdf
bump
2 posted on 02/12/2003 12:08:25 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Excellent post, on this, Abe's B'day. Thanks.

Bump for later reference.

3 posted on 02/12/2003 12:16:42 PM PST by My2Cents ("...The bombing begins in 5 minutes.")
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Lincoln at Gettysburg


4 posted on 02/12/2003 12:23:12 PM PST by My2Cents ("...The bombing begins in 5 minutes.")
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Thanks for posting what shouldn't even need saying! Amazing where one finds revisionist history.
9 posted on 02/12/2003 1:33:45 PM PST by Let's Roll (Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.)
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"Must I shoot a simple-minded boy who deserts, while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert?.... I think that, in such a case, to silence the agitator and save the boy is not only constitutional, but withal a great mercy." [...] The President was not out to trample on the First Amendment.

"Silencing the agitator" IS trampling on the First Amendment, Madam Justice O'Connor. Your own watery fidelity to that provision of the Constitution has, however, long been evident already.

Quite apart from this, no discussion is made of the many newspapermen who were arrested for opposing the war, and the other critical voices that were suppressed with "express approval from Washington." (O'Connor glosses over how Lincoln could ever have been reasonably construed as having that power, which went far beyond the issue of habeas corpus.)

Nor is any mention made of how suppressing the riots, over a draft that was never authorized by the Constitution (and intended to be prohibited later by the 13th Amendment), also involved the wrecking of local newspapers and a federalizing of the state militias without sanction of law.

Lincoln trampled constantly on the First Amendment. Let's not sugar-coat it.

10 posted on 02/12/2003 1:58:20 PM PST by Greybird (“We have crossed the boundary that lies between Republic and Empire.” —Garet Garrett, 1952)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
A huge Republican Lincoln BUMP!

Thank you for this post. Just today my anti-cop, anti-Bush, pro-Castro, anti-Ashcroft criminal procedure professor was bitching about Lincoln doing this. She made the comment, "Most everybody will now say that this was a huge mistake my Lincoln." Sometimes I think she and others don't look back at the situation President Lincoln and the Union was facing.

11 posted on 02/12/2003 1:58:34 PM PST by GOPyouth
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Really great post, "WhiskeyPapa". Thank you for taking the time to enlighten an often murkey part of history. As usual, the truth does not complicate, but clarifies an issue.

Regards, Buck ("Charlie November")
12 posted on 02/12/2003 2:05:34 PM PST by elbucko
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Thanks for this timely thread. Waiting for the Neo Reb onslaught.
21 posted on 02/12/2003 2:52:47 PM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: WhiskeyPapa
President Lincoln vindicated against the neo-reb liars.

By WHOM? You, and the liberal O'Conner? Sheesh. Try harder, I am sure there are some other cut-and-paste jobs you can do to "prove" your assertion.

Deo Vindice!
22 posted on 02/12/2003 2:58:38 PM PST by safisoft
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To: WhiskeyPapa
In the event that anybody wants to see the real truth about The Lincoln's unconstitutional suspension of habeas corpus, the following provides ample evidence that Congress alone, and not the president, can suspend that writ. Enjoy

"The privileges and benefit of the writ of Habeas Corpus shall be enjoyed in this Government, in the most expeditious and ample manner; and shall not be suspended by the Legislature, except upon the most urgent and pressing occasions, and for a limited time not exceeding months." - Proposal of Charles Pickney on habeas corpus, Constitutional Convention of 1787, submitted to committee for consideration and later adopted in its current language as Article I, Section 9, Clause 2, pertaining to the legislature

"All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States...The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." - United States Constitution, Article I

"In the same section it is provided, that "the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion and invasion, the public safety may require it." This clause limits the power of the legislature to deprive a citizen of the right of habeas corpus, to particular cases viz. those of rebellion and invasion; the reason is plain, because in no other cases can this power be exercised for the general good." - Robert Yates, delegate to the Constitutional Convention, Anti-Federalist #9 "Brutus"

"The people by adopting the federal constitution, give congress general powers to institute a distinct and new judiciary, new courts, and to regulate all proceedings in them, under the eight limitations mentioned in a former letter; and the further one, that the benefits of the habeas corpus act shall be enjoyed by individuals." - Federal Farmer (believed to be Richard Henry Lee), Anti-Federalist #16

"The safest and best restriction, therefore, arises from the nature of the cases in which Congress are authorized to exercise that power [of suspending habeas corpus] at all, namely, in those of rebellion or invasion. These are clear and certain terms, facts of public notoriety, and whenever these shall cease to exist, the suspension of the writ must necessarily cease also." - Francis Dana, presenter of the Constitution to the Massachussetts ratification convention

"The decision that the individual shall be imprisoned must always precede the application for a writ of habeas corpus, and this writ must always be for the purpose of revising that decision, and therefore appellate in its nature. But this point also is decided in Hamilton's case and in Burford's case. If at any time the public safety should require the suspension of the powers vested by this act in the courts of the United States, it is for the legislature to say so. That question depends on political considerations, on which the legislature is to decide." - United States Supreme Court, Ex Parte Bollman & Swartwout, authored by Justice John Marshall, 1807

"Those respecting the press, religion, & juries, with several others, of great value, were accordingly made; but the Habeas corpus was left to the discretion of Congress, and the amendment against the reeligibility of the President was not proposed by that body." - Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, 1821

"The Constitution seems to have secured this benefit [habeas corpus] to the citizen by the description of the writ, and in an unqualified manner admitting its efficacy, while it declares that it shall not he suspended unless when, in case of rebellion or invasion, the public safety shall require it. This writ is believed to be known only in countries governed by the common law, as it is established in England; but in that country the benefit of it may at any time be withheld by the authority of parliament, whereas we see that in this country it cannot be suspended even in cases of rebellion or invasion, unless the public safety shall require it. Of this necessity the Constitution probably intends, that the legislature of the United States shall be the judges. Charged as they are with the preservation of the United States from both those evils, and superseding the powers of the several states in the prosecution of the measures they may find it expedient to adopt, it seems not unreasonable that this control over the writ of habeas corpus, which ought only to be exercised on extraordinary occasions, should rest with them. It is at any rate certain, that congress, which has authorized the courts and judges of the United States to issue writs of habeas corpus in cases within their jurisdiction, can alone suspend their power" - William Rawl, A View of the Constitution of the United States, Chapter 10, 1826

"It would seem, as the power is given to congress to suspend the writ of habeas corpus in cases of rebellion or invasion, that the right to judge, whether exigency had arisen, must exclusively belong to that body." - Justice Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, Book 3, Chapter XXXII, § 1336, 1833

"With such provisions in the constitution, expressed in language too clear to be misunderstood by any one, I can see no ground whatever for supposing that the president, in any emergency, or in any state of things, can authorize the suspension of the privileges of the writ of habeas corpus, or the arrest of a citizen, except in aid of the judicial power. He certainly does not faithfully execute the laws, if he takes upon himself legislative power, by suspending the writ of habeas corpus, and the judicial power also, by arresting and imprisoning a person without due process of law." - Chief Justice Roger Taney, Ex Parte Merryman, United States Circuit Court, 1861

"There has been much discussion concerning the question whether the power to suspend the "privilege of the writ of habeas corpus," is conferred by the Constitution on Congress, or on the President. The only judicial decisions which have been made upon this question have been adverse to the power of the President." - Justice Benjamin R. Curtis, Executive Power, 1862

48 posted on 02/17/2003 12:34:12 AM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Yep. It's pretty weird to argue against the suspension of Habeas Corpus in time of emergency, when the Constitution specificaly provides for it
68 posted on 02/17/2003 4:31:51 PM PST by unspun (Christ-informed, American constitutional republic: Yes. Libertarian & objectivist revisionism: No.)
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