HOW DARE THE FRENCH FORGET

New York Post ^ | 2/10/03 | STEVE DUNLEAVY

[dfwgator]

Wasn't that the wimp who declared war on Hitler 2 years and 3 months before America did? (and America didn't declare war till Hitler did)

You know what, you are absolutely right!!! So why is it that when the US is trying to avoid making that same mistake again does Europe suddenly have a problem? Talk about "damned if you, damned if you don't!"

[RoughDobermann]

I'm aware of the contributions of the 1st Free French in the North African theater, thanks. I'm also aware of the the actions of the French fleet at Oran and the actions of the Vichy French during the beginning of Operation Torch.

there were probably as many French fighting Axis in North Africa as there were Americans

No, actually they weren't.

Gee, bases. That's great. Thanks a bunch. What the h*ll were they going to do with them?

[Bigg Red]

Your post was very touching, friend. It brought tears to my eyes.

[bmwcyle]

World Peace Now - Bomb Paris and Berlin First

[desertcry]

It's very dangerous to ask a frenchman, or woman to cover your back, while entering terrorists caves. Now atleast we have the french in our line of sight. Gratitude, and france just don't go together.

[nutmeg]

:-)

[Pietro]

of note:

"WWII France suffered 810,000 total causalties; 340,000 military and 470,000 civilian."

Perhaps if more french"men" had stood up more french ladies would not have fallen down (or not had those severe haircuts so common in '45).

Geo. Patton said we don't want our soldiers to die for their country; we want the other sons of bitches to die for theirs.

That's a plan. get w/ the program or get out of the way.

[Bigg Red]

These names mean nothing to the French, 91 percent of whom, according to a poll, are against President Bush's plans to make Saddam a dark mark in history.

I wonder if that is really true of the opinion of the French people. Look how the media manipulate polls here. The people in the government have two reasons to want to take Iraq's side: 1) those illegal $60 million oil deals, and 2) the possible backlash from all those Muslim immigrants - legal and illegal -- that are now in their country.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

"... My ancestors detested the Old Europe they came from. They left the tyranny of Europe, the poverty of Europe, the hypocrisy of Europe behind and never looked back. ...

What an interesting remark. Do you think modern immigrants are divorcing themselves from their roots as our ancestors did? (In part because the WASP ruling class at that time was self-confident enough to demand it.)

Do immigrants from the Middle East, for example, come here and leave all that behind? Do they insist that the USA refrain from sticking it's nose into the ancient problems of that area? Do they leave the poverty, tyranny and hypocricy of Old Arabia or Old Israel?

Do African Americans shed their African identity and demand that the US government keep its nose out of the poverty, tyranny and hypocricy of Old Africa?

What, among the best things about the United States, does not have its intellectual roots in Europe? Did your ancestors insist that the schools drop any mention of Greece, Rome and Europe in general in their descendant's education?

[MadIvan]

What La Belle Dame doesn't want to understand is that this is a issue of simple courtesy. The French and Germans are not being asked to supply troops. Nor are they being asked to even vote positively in favour of war against Iraq. What is being requested is their mere silence as more morally and militarily capable nations defend themselves by taking out Saddam Hussein.

That is not a symptom of imperial pretentions. It is a request for good manners.

Regards, Ivan

[Bigg Red]

But, didn't we go to war against Hitler just for our own imperialistic and selfish gain?

Yeah, and remember how we repaired all of those oil wells that Saddam sabotaged at the end of the Gulf War just so W's father could keep all of their oil for himself? Yeah, and look the US treated Japan, the country that attacked us first in WWII. Man, look at all that tribute we imperialists made them pay!

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

This is pointless. Among Augustine's precepts for a just war is the idea that the war must be winnable.

I can see that my attempt to make you think about how it could be possible that some Europeans might view things differently than our Government--and might even dare to act upon their view--is hopeless.

We lost thousnads of people in an attack on the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon. The dicussions over memorials and financial reparations and "the process of grieving" and "the process of healing" and on and on has not made one chink in the intellectual armor of many here.

MILLIONS of soldiers and MILLIONS of civilians were killed in Europe in the Twentieth Century. Entire countries were smashed---all their infrasturcture was destroyed; all their buildings; their farmlands. Europeans starved to death by the tens of thousands.

To accuse the Europeans of "forgetting" bcause some of them refuse to go along with our attack upon Iraq is idiotic.

[MadIvan]

Do African Americans shed their African identity and demand that the US government keep its nose out of the poverty, tyranny and hypocricy of Old Africa?

They are supposed to shed that identity. As John Quincy Adams said about immigrants:

"They must cast off their European skin, never to resume it. They must look toward their posterity rather than backwards to their ancestors."

And you proclaim yourself to be the Holy Defender of the Founding Fathers.

Ivan

[MadIvan]

I can see that my attempt to make you think about how it could be possible that some Europeans might view things differently than our Government

We all acknowledge it is possible. But unlike you, we realise that it is wrong.

We lost thousnads of people in an attack on the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon. The dicussions over memorials and financial reparations and "the process of grieving" and "the process of healing" and on and on has not made one chink in the intellectual armor of many here.

You have a thing against grieving and life insurance?

To accuse the Europeans of "forgetting" bcause some of them refuse to go along with our attack upon Iraq is idiotic

What is idiotic is that the Europeans refuse to see how pre-emptive action could have prevented the devastation you describe. And you are an idiot for refusing to see it yourself.

Ivan

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

..."Society suffocates liberty merely by existing, and it must exist, and all its members are equally its slaves. The individual may elude the feeling, though not the fact, of subjection to society either by a willing conformity or by a mental reservation." ...----Santayana

I'm just an Injun on the mental reservation.....

[RoughDobermann]

Entire countries were smashed---all their infrasturcture was destroyed; all their buildings; their farmlands.

And were promptly rebuilt thanks to the US' Marshall Plan.

[MadIvan]

I'm just an Injun on the mental reservation.....

Disagreeing without a valid argument does not make you a spirited individual. It makes you into the Free Republic's official Village Idiot.

Ivan

[wimpycat]

To illustrate your point:

With all due respect, Ivan, ethnically speaking I'm as British as they come. My ancestors got off the boat over 300 years ago and basically stayed where they landed. With the possible exception of Canada (for reasons of proximity), there's no other country besides the UK that I'd help out sooner or more willingly. But if push came to shove and the UK was planning some sort of reconquista or was yanking our chains as hard as the French and Germans are now, I'd be like, "Toodleloo, you blasted Limeys!"

[MadIvan]

But if push came to shove and the UK was planning some sort of reconquista or was yanking our chains as hard as the French and Germans are now, I'd be like, "Toodleloo, you blasted Limeys!"

Precisely. You are "one nation under God", not "multiple nations living together due to immigration".

Regards, Ivan