[longshadow]

The problem with teaching physics first is that even the most basic principles require mathematics that aren't usually taught until late in the game (vectors and trigonometry, for example). Chemistry and biology don't have these requirements.

I can personally attest to this, having been in the unusual circumstance of having taken Senior High Physics as a freshman in High School. The only reason it was remotely feasible was due to the agressiveness of my Junior High Math teacher, who beat Algebra I into the heads of half my Junior high class. The trig/vector material would have been a problem for most students, but luckily, I was able to pick it up on the fly, or already knew the basic trig relations.

But the sad reality is, for most students, this isn't an option, for the reasons "Physicist" has indicated.

As an aside, I have also done a stint as a instructor in a private high school, in which I concurrently taught, among other things, both conventional Senior Physics as well as a freshman-level (math-lite) version of Physics.

My sense is that the math-lite version is fine, if you teach it to students who otherwise would never take Senior Physics at all. It is no substitute for the real thing, however, and would be inadequate as preparation for anyone intending on taking college level physics.

Lastly, the importance of Mathematical knowledge as a prerequisite to doing serious science, especially Physics, cannot be overstated. I cite as evidence the fact that the people in my college Freshman Physics course who struggled the most were the handful who had never studied Calculus in High School. The were like deer-in-the-headlights; doomed before they ever started the course. Unable to weild the Mathematical tools needed to solve the problems, they spent the bulk of their time struggling with the Math, and never had the opportunity to devote the time needed to comprehend the Physics itself.

If our society is to progress, we must force Algebra and Trig down into the grade-school curriculum, to make room for Calculus (and if I had my druthers, a basic course in linear Vector Spaces). This, in turn, requires students to understand and be fluent in things like "fractions" BEFORE they get their drivers license, which is a circuitous way of saying that that "feel-good" there-are-no-wrong-answers Math instruction needws to be banished forever from the classroom.

Given the problems inherent in the public education system, and the entrenched interests of incompetent teachers, bloated arrogant administrators, and their unions, I suspect this goal will not see frution until the day what we get rid of public education altogether, and put it inthe hands of private enterprise, subject to the comeptitve forces of the market place, as it should be.

[headsonpikes]

Bump.

It's the math. I think the administrators would prefer to operate a school system with only slow children.

Smart kids intimidate them.

[Youngblood]

This, in turn, requires students to understand and be fluent in things like "fractions" BEFORE they get their drivers license, which is a circuitous way of saying that that "feel-good" there-are-no-wrong-answers Math instruction needs to be banished forever from the classroom.

My God, what kind of education system do you have in the States?!

[PatrickHenry]

Given the problems inherent in the public education system, and the entrenched interests of incompetent teachers, bloated arrogant administrators, and their unions ...

I can't dispute anything you've said. But I'm a disputatious person, and a good thread needs controversy -- hence my frustration. So let me say: You, sir, are descended from pond scum!

[Condorman]

The high school I went to had (and maybe still does) a pretty good system. The standard 9th grade science class was Physical Sciences, which was essentially an intro course. The next three years focused on Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, in that order.

However, the more advanced incoming freshmen were given the option to skip the intro course, and jump into biology a year early. This allowed them to choose one of the three Advanced Placement science courses in chemistry, biology or physics for their senior year science class. At the end of the senior year, they could take the AP test for that subject. Colleges award credit hours (treated as tranferrable credits) for some of the core classes depending on how the students score on AP tests.

Of course, the high school administrators used all kinds of scare tactics (my parents even had to sign some kind of waiver) in order to discourage the parents from accelerating their kids.