The Case for Physics First

The Washington Post ^ | February 8, 2003 | ROB SNYDER

[Archangelsk]

The Case for Physics First
Saturday, February 8, 2003; Page A20

A Feb. 4 letter suggested that physics should not be taught before chemistry and biology because it is more abstract. But a first course in physics is the least abstract of any first-year high school science course.

Rather than having to imagine processes at an atomic or molecular level, or to imagine what occurs in biological systems, students in first-year physics can collect and analyze physical data as they experiment with falling objects, colliding carts, light bulbs, mirrors, etc.

[longshadow]

No child is left behind, because no child is permitted to run.

A sad, but none-the-less apt characterization of the problem.

[headsonpikes]

Bump.

It's the math. I think the administrators would prefer to operate a school system with only slow children.

Smart kids intimidate them.

[tacticalogic]

Simple Newtonian mechanics is easy for grade school kid to grok.

An that makes those people I see going down the road at 70mph, 10 feet from the back bumper of the car in front of them, and absolutely no grasp of the concept of inertia all the more puzzling.

[Youngblood]

This, in turn, requires students to understand and be fluent in things like "fractions" BEFORE they get their drivers license, which is a circuitous way of saying that that "feel-good" there-are-no-wrong-answers Math instruction needs to be banished forever from the classroom.

My God, what kind of education system do you have in the States?!

[PatrickHenry]

Given the problems inherent in the public education system, and the entrenched interests of incompetent teachers, bloated arrogant administrators, and their unions ...

I can't dispute anything you've said. But I'm a disputatious person, and a good thread needs controversy -- hence my frustration. So let me say: You, sir, are descended from pond scum!

[longshadow]

My God, what kind of education system do you have in the States?!

The PUBLIC education system here, with a few exceptions, run by incompetent boobs, staffed with teachers who (with a few exceptions) are too stupid to get anything other than an education degree, and populated by students whose "Self-esteem" is deemed (by administrators and teachers) to be more important than their academic performance.

For a generation (or more), our schools have been riddled with leftist idiots who are preoccupied with "diversity," "self-esteem," "gender-based issues," and all sorts of academic egalitarian bullsh*t.

Heaven help you if you try to tell a student that he got a fraction problem "wrong" -- my goodness, that might harm his self-esteem, or, if it is a girl, it might cause her to feel she's being sexually discriminated against. Oh, dear, we could have that in our public schools, because we CARE SO MUCH..... (gag, cough).

[billorites]

F=MA should be a pre-req for driving.

[longshadow]

Smart kids intimidate them.

And with good reason; they have higher IQ's.

[longshadow]

You, sir, are descended from pond scum!

Where have I heard that before..... hmmmmm?

[Archangelsk]

So let me say: You, sir, are descended from pond scum!

As we all are. :-)

[Condorman]

The high school I went to had (and maybe still does) a pretty good system. The standard 9th grade science class was Physical Sciences, which was essentially an intro course. The next three years focused on Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, in that order.

However, the more advanced incoming freshmen were given the option to skip the intro course, and jump into biology a year early. This allowed them to choose one of the three Advanced Placement science courses in chemistry, biology or physics for their senior year science class. At the end of the senior year, they could take the AP test for that subject. Colleges award credit hours (treated as tranferrable credits) for some of the core classes depending on how the students score on AP tests.

Of course, the high school administrators used all kinds of scare tactics (my parents even had to sign some kind of waiver) in order to discourage the parents from accelerating their kids.

[Condorman]

You, sir, are descended from pond scum!

Sir, I've corresponded with longshadow for some time now. He's a good man. You, on the other hand, are made of monkey parts.

[longshadow]

Of course, the high school administrators used all kinds of scare tactics (my parents even had to sign some kind of waiver) in order to discourage the parents from accelerating their kids.

Indeed; the High School advisor told my parents it would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to take Physics as a freshman -- it took the intervention of the Physics teacher personally to arrange it. The advisor was convinced I was going to flunk.

By mid-year, I had an "A" in the course.

[maxwell]

The problem with having the math courses "run concurrently with the physics courses" is that they never really do. You invaribly hit a need in physics for a math concept you haven't yet had.

But there's no reason you can't learn that concept in the physics course. There's nothing in my multivariable, linear and complex algebra, diff eq, and advanced math classes that I hadn't already picked up in my physics classes and utilized in the way I needed. I.e., I found the math to be more complimentary than essential. Perhaps the courses should just be combined.

When I tutor high school and freshman kiddies, I often find their trig and alg skills to be, frankly, dismal... Many simple physics problems can address this and strengthen their understanding of it, however, like vector motion or 2-d force problems for trig work...

It's true what you said about chemistry-- majored in chem as well, and all the others thought they'd died and gone to hell when the prof decided to waltz through quantum-mechanics-ultralite in physical chem class. Separation of Schodinger's equation in spherical coordinates was old hat to me by that time but the other kiddies would've much preferred going back to breathing benzene fumes... And they didn't even have to do the separation. [snortle]

And therein lies the problem-- kids just don't LIKE physics.

[BMCDA]

Because in public education, they are forbidden from going faster than some bureaucrat (read: democrat) imagines the slowest child can go. No child is left behind, because no child is permitted to run.

Tsk, tsk, who do you think you are to question the Handicapper General?

[Condorman]

who do you think you are to question the Handicapper General?

Clever.

[eniapmot]

F=ma is an algebra equation

Huh?

It is not.

[maxwell]

Well ok d(p)/d(t) = m d(d(x)/d(t))/d(t)

[edwin hubble]

Thanks for the ping, PatrickHenry

Physicist,
I certainly agree that the high school science sequence is driven by math. (the need for Algebra II before Physics).

But the concepts ...can be introduced before the higher math. (See AAPT's Conceptual Force Quiz, which many physics graduate students might fail).

The result is, sadly that the middle school Physical Science (usually 8th grade) is the First Time students see Newton's Laws. And for most, it is the Last Time they study physics. (Few take high school physics.)
Paul Hewitt's "Conceptual Physics" is a good approach.

[Archangelsk]

Maxwell beat me to it.