Canada's Health Crisis

Las Vegas Sun Times ^

[steelie]

Canada to Spend More on National Health By ROB GILLIES ASSOCIATED PRESS

TORONTO (AP) - Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien and provincial leaders reached an agreement late Wednesday that will upgrade Canada's national health care system, including billions of more dollars to ensure equal access to free medical care.

[steelie]

"It will never be enough" Canada is dying

[steelie]

I like the part where "non essential" or "elective" patients face long waits.

Do not let this come to America!

[canuck_conservative]

It's really horrible.

If you have to go the hospital with something "non-essential", you could be waiting 6, 10, 12 hours. There also tons of horror stories about patients having to wait 6-8 months (or longer) for a life-saving operation.

And stop this garbage about medical care in Canada being free. You HAVE TO be on your province's Medical Service Plan to get it; and they charge a substantial monthly fee. Hardly "free"!

[Paleo Conservative]

What health crisis. Why Canada has so much money available for healthcare a federal court in Canada ruled that transexuals in prison must be allowed to have sex-change operations. A country that could mandate that couldn't possibly have waiting lines for cancer patients to get surgery; could it?

[joesbucks]

I guess I simply don't understand. I work for a Canadian company that owns a US subsidiary that I work for. Every person I meet I ask about the health care system and the horror stories. Not a single person is unhappy with the health care system and tell us the horror stories they hear about ours. I'm not talking about just floor workers,......I'm speaking of all walks of life from guys and gals on the floor to the executive office.

[canuck_conservative]

Well, has any of them ever had to go to a Canadian hospital? If they're in the prime of life, the answer is probably no (let's exclude maternity cases).

So until you actually have to go thru it, you don't know what it's about. I didn't have to (thank God!), but I did have to take a friend there once, for a dog-bite - and it was, literally, a 10-hour wait. And how about that stat about Seattle (one city) having more MRI machines than all of B.C. (an entire province)?!

There's also one further reason why you may not have heard anything. Canadians generally don't have much to brag about over the US (except maybe bacon and Olympic hockey), so this issue often becomes one of Canada's proudest boasts - which means you'll usually not hear a Canadian speak ill of it.

I, on the other hand, am not afraid to tell it like it is. And it's not as perfect a system as some Canadian nationalists would have you believe!

[Timesink]

There's also one further reason why you may not have heard anything. Canadians generally don't have much to brag about over the US (except maybe bacon and Olympic hockey), so this issue often becomes one of Canada's proudest boasts - which means you'll usually not hear a Canadian speak ill of it.

EXACTLY. To the average Canadian, the mere fact that it exists is a sign of socialist pride, proof positive that they are "morally superior" to us animals to the South. The fact that it doesn't work and people routinely die from it as a result? Oh, well, that's just a minor side issue, we don't really have to get into that...

[Timesink]

...including billions of more dollars to ensure equal access to free medical care.

Why does he have to inject billions of dollars merely to insure "equal access" to a service that doesn't exist? It must be for gun-toting stormtroopers to ensure that those with terminal cancer who decide they're not going to wait nine months for an MRI (which they can get in nine minutes in the US) can be shot when they try to jump the line.

[Jim Noble]

>>I guess I simply don't understand<<

Here's my insight:

When I was a young doctor, most of my older colleagues said to me, "These HMOs will never amount to anything-not one of my patients would want that."

And they were right. None of my patients want it, even today.

But most people are not patients.

What the non-patients want is a "system", provided by others, which takes care of everything and costs them nothing.

Politicians are well aware of this fantasy, which is why they try so hard to provide this imaginary creature.

Now, as this imaginary creature has grown and grown, it has started to consume real resources which are increasingly diverted from the care of actual patients. All those bureaucrats and "health care executives" have to get paid, after all. And actual patients don't like it, and resent it.

But the vast, non-patient majority-they 'effin love it. They love it!

They love the politicians who design it, they love their employers who provide it, they love the companies that wholesale it-they love everything about it.

And I imagine that non-sick Canadians love their version even better, because it conveys an air of moral superiority on top of everything else.

Why do you think that, all over the Western world, governments which do not provide houses to live in and food to eat (both vitally necessary to life) are in the "health care" business?

Because it makes their non-sick constituents fantasies (seemingly) come true.

And they love 'em for it, bless their little politician hearts.

Very, very little of this has anything to do with sick people, doctor services, surgery, or anything else at all real.

[gunnedah]

This is the plan Hilliary wants to duplicate.

[RightOnline]

There couldn't possibly be a health care crisis in Canada. Just ask 'em. They have nothing short of a frigid Worker's Paradise up there. All health care is totally free, spot-on in its timing, and top-notch in its quality. Really. It's true. All provided by the Great Health Care Fairy in Ottawa.

We could learn SO much from our Canadian friends' approach to health care. Just ask the Democrats.

[Mamzelle]

bump. I think that covers it really well...one nice thing, with the Canadians content with their illusions of coverage, maybe they won't immigrate south. And...maybe some of our immigrants will see Canada as the better deal and head north.

[Mamzelle]

Wait...to your analysis, I'd like to add...Perhaps they are content with this inferior care because they don't have the unpleasant knowledge that anyone else in their town enjoys anything better. Sort of the Russian way of looking at things. And, you have to admit, they enjoy the best care available in Canada.

[joesbucks]

Again, I can't explain it, but even the executives were puzzled about our health care system and felt theirs superior. When mentioning the waits, their explanation was we often have the same types of issues and some of it may be urban legend.

[Snowyman]

Again, I can't explain it

You don't have to. I've used it for the birthing of babies. On a lonely dark November night it saved my 5 year old boy from epiglottis 23 years ago. And it paid for the birth of his daughter last year. It helped my daughter with her broken arm when she was small and it removed her wisdom teeth as an adult. It also paid for her three children's births and her husband's recovery last year after he was in a bad car accident.

It looked after my sick mother for over 10 years,and as she was dying she got the best care , the best. . It cured my father of bowel cancer when he was in his sixties, and prostrate cancer when he was in his seventies. Last September it removed cataracts from his right eye, two weeks ago from his left and now he can drive again. I've seen it replace a knee of my friend, provide kidney dialysis for my wife's uncle 3 times a week and next week will replace the right hip of an old lady that suffers from arthritis bad enough she can't walk on her own. Her first consultation was Dec. 16th.

It's not perfect , we're stuck with it and I can speak only for Ontario. Employers pay a 1.9% payroll tax to pay for it and when the Liberal and NDP governments where in it declined in both quality and quantity. Our current provincial Conservative government is doing it's best. Be critical but be honest about it. It's not perfect , it never will be. But who's is?

[joesbucks]

In no way am I suggesting that we socialize medicine. But at the same time, I believe the horror stories being circulated are exceptions rather than the rule. For the most part, most Canadians are happy with the health care system. The previous company I worked for was British held. They held a similar view to the Canadians.

I don't think the conservative movement has been very good with giving the true facts regarding the Canadian health system. Their view is to stop any attempt to socialize at any cost.......and sometimes facts be damned.

Honestly though, I'm finding that the PPO and HMO programs here in the states are really no different and in some cases worse than what we hear about you folks. The PPO and HMO providers are now denying things clearly covered by the contracts. Gotta fight for what they owe you.

[Snowyman]

Like I said , criticize it but be honest. It's not good enough to dismiss it with myths and half truths. Or second and third hand stories or flippant remarks . Living in Canada we don't have much choice but on the other hand there is no insurance company trying to make a profit to deal with . The one advantage we do have is not being concerned about paying for it when we are in need and already under stress. And that means a lot.

There was a time when you had to sign the bill , even though you didn't have to pay it. That was real eye openner. I would have been broke forever!

If numbers mean anything 72 million Americans on Medicaid and Medicare is as socialistic as 31 million Canadians on Health Care. Either Americans don't know that or it's being ignored ,IMHO