Crusades versus Jihad

February 7, 2003 | Me

[Voice in your head]

I was doing some reading at the online Catholic Encyclopedia. It is an extremely well written, and user-friendly source of information. I found an interesting account of the Crusades and was struck by how similar the Catholic Encyclopedia’s interpretation of the Crusades is to the Islamic interpretation of Jihad.

The Catholic Encyclopedia describes the Crusades as, “… expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny.”

Compare this with the definition of jihad given by Imam Tammam Adi Ph.D of the Islamic Cultural Center:
“Jihad is the struggle to control one's lower instincts. Jihad also means to use a fair war to give a nation freedom of religion if all other means fail. Islam's main proclamation is "No compulsion in religion" Koran 2:255. The Afghani Mujahideen (those who do jihad) fought against the atheist Russians to keep their freedom of religion. Unfortunately, chaos ensued.” - quoted from here

In common, modern language, the words “Crusade” and jihad, according to their respective proponents, have been misused.

The Catholic Encyclopedia writes:
"Since the Middle Ages the meaning of the word crusade has been extended to include all wars undertaken in pursuance of a vow, and directed against infidels, i.e. against Mohammedans, pagans, heretics, or those under the ban of excommunication… But modern literature has abused the word by applying it to all wars of a religious character, as, for instance, the expedition of Heraclius against the Persians in the seventh century and the conquest of Saxony by Charlemagne.”

Imam Tammam Adi writes of jihad that it is “[o]ften mistranslated ‘holy war,’ especially against the West, the more accurate Arabic meaning is 'struggle'."

As I continued to read through the Catholic Encyclopedia’s article, I also could not help but notice a familiar pattern emerging, regarding the evolution of the religion and its culture. This was alluded to, in one of the opening paragraphs of the Catholic encyclopedia article, which wrote that, “[t]he idea of the crusade corresponds to a political conception which was realized in Christendom only from the eleventh to the fifteenth century; this supposes a union of all peoples and sovereigns under the direction of the popes. All crusades were announced by preaching. After pronouncing a solemn vow, each warrior received a cross from the hands of the pope or his legates, and was thenceforth considered a soldier of the Church. Crusaders were also granted indulgences and temporal privileges, such as exemption from civil jurisdiction, inviolability of persons or lands, etc.”

Much like the Arab cultures of today are often ruled by tyrannies that claim the divine right of Islam for justification of their powers – their powers being derived from the enforcement of “Islamic law” – the Christian cultures of the 11th through 16th centuries, when the crusades occurred, were “peoples and sovereigns under the direction of the popes.” Much like a Crusader was “considered a soldier of the Church,” the modern mujahideen and terrorists consider themselves to be waging a jihad. Depending upon who you listen to, one will receive a different opinion of which, if any, are legitimate. However, the Crusades and jihads seem to have one very important thing in common. The Crusades took place when the church had a large and somewhat authoritative role in the culture. That authoritative role is also present in the Arab world today - perhaps even more so. Arab nations tend to be ruled by "Islamic law." Like the perversion of government and religion that occured in England, due to their intermixing (rules of divorce, Anglican church, etc.) the Arab nations of today declare stoning and rape to be legitimate punishments for certain crimes and they justify this by declaring it to be "Islamic law."

As I read the articles mentioned above and as I wrote this, I began to ponder a few questions:

1. Were there self-proclaimed Christians, during the Crusades, who killed in a manner that the church did not approve of, but declared their actions to be part of a legitimate Crusade?

2. Were there religious leaders who used their positions of authority to encourage violence against those whom they arbitrarily viewed as “infidels”?

3. With questions 1 and 2 in mind, is history repeating itself? Is jihad, as Palestinians and Al-Qaeda wage it, a modern day perversion of the Islamic equivalent of a “Crusade”? Is the term jihad being exploited by an ignorant Arab culture and successfully being preached thanks to the democratization of communication?

4. People such as Imam Tammam Adi will assert that Islam is not a religion of violence. Many will explain that there is no such Islamic Law that advocates women to be covered head-to-toe, to be stoned or raped, or for various body parts to be cut off. That these are arbitrary interpretations of Islamic Law seems to be evident if one compares and contrasts different Arab countries. In some, women are covered head-to-toe, in others they are not. The same variation is present in punishments. Could it be that simple illiteracy and lack of education is the root of hatred in the Middle East and the source from which the literate spiritual leaders are able to exert their influence over the people?

[aimhigh]

The concept of scientific laws was rejected on the basis that God could always do what he wanted, and wouldn't or couldn't limit himself by such laws. Philosophy was rejected at the same time, since it began to reveal contradictions in the Koran. A major Islamic book was published at that time which condemned these things, putting Arabia permanently in the dark ages.

[Voice in your head]

"The concept of scientific laws was rejected on the basis that God could always do what he wanted, and wouldn't or couldn't limit himself by such laws."

Why would there be the assumption that God would be subject to the same scientific laws that we are subject to?

"Philosophy was rejected at the same time, since it began to reveal contradictions in the Koran."

Why would philosophy be rejected due to its revelation of contradictions in the Koran, rather than just using jive to explain away the contradictions? Go to google.com and type in "bible contradictions" and you will see a near endless listing of sites that discuss biblical contradictions - this did not cause Christians to reject philosophy. Why the difference with the Muslims?

"A major Islamic book was published at that time which condemned these things, putting Arabia permanently in the dark ages."

What was the name of the book?

[ke1n]

this is coming from an Arab-American (yes, both are in my blood, not passport)who have lived in both the Arab and American worlds,

Jihad is not about fighting infidels. It is about fighting infidels who are attacking either ISlam, or Islamic countries.

Now I wil lset a few things straight. Arab culture is NOT the enemy. Whoever thought of this idea was completely ignorant. The arab culture is a very generous and welcoming culture. The morons (Bin laden, brainwashed followers, Khomeini) pissed all over the once great Arab reputaion of hospitality. IF you would leave your (probably) secluded town yo live in and actually visit the arab world you might not make yourself look as rediculous with your opinions. My mother wold be considered a WASP, she moved to Kuwait in the 1970s to teach (after teaching al lvoer europe and the USA) and fell in love withthe people and has been there ever since. She is a Christian (Catholic) and sometimes attends one of the 4 churches lcated in Kuwait. yeah, the arab world is so evil huh? If you are ever invited to a typical Arab family's home, you would be treated better than every member of that family.


The purpose of Jihad has been abused, just like the crusaders. oh yeah, buddy, you forgot to mension that when the Crusaders intered JArusalem they also slaughtered every non-christian (Jewish civilians, Muslim civilians). There is a huge amount of stupidity going around the muslim world and that makes all the good muslims look bad.

by the way, i dont know if u have ever heard the term 'BS', but Bin Laden is full of it, and that is precicely why he uses Islam as an excuse for the 9-11 attacks, which by the way killed more Muslims than Jewish people. There were a good number of Muslims in the twin towers atthe time of the attack. ahem the media didnt bother to mention that.

The topic of Isreal, alot of you people seem to show your ignorance when it comes to this. YES, suicide bombs in Israeli civilians is horrible, and I condemn it. the only thign that bugs me is that nobody botherd to look at how the problem started in the first place. A bunch of Zionists convinced the UN that because their holy book says current day ISrael belongs to the jews, that they should be able to kick all its inhabitants out, and form their own country with no regard to where they will live. Oh, and if they attempt to fight back, they are evil and shouldbe killed. Last time i checked, kicking someone out of their own land and playing the victim and using a holy book that is almost a millenia old is not only STUPID, but unreligious in every shape or form. Though shall not kill my a$$. Hundreds of thousands of palestinian children and adults have been mutilated and killed since then and nobody has done anything about it. None of you seem to be bringing up that issue now do you? SOme of you may not know this, but an american protestor was killed by a bulldozer by the israeli government while she was standing in the way of the demolition of a palestinian family's house in 2003. She is looked at as a martyr by the muslims in the area. So how evil is this Arab culture? Oh, but what the Israeli government has done to the palestinans is good, right? (notice the sarcasm, for those who are unable to pick it up).


I could go on and on disproving alot of you. But my conclusion: the holy wars, with both the muslims and christian crusaders, were both equal in stupidity, their sense of evil, and sense of expansionism. They all killed in the name of God and ironically, Islam and Christianity have alot more similarities than differences. You will find the story of the Virgin Mary and Jesus in the Quran as well.

a note: throughout my 10 years of ISlamic studies, and observations of the Quran, I never once saw anything pertaining to the idea of Prophet Mohamed sodomizing young boys. That is looked at as evil in the muslim world; it is considered rape. For rape, is capital punishment.


forgive my typos if there are any.

[Voice in your head]

”Now I wil lset a few things straight. Arab culture is NOT the enemy. Whoever thought of this idea was completely ignorant. The arab culture is a very generous and welcoming culture… The morons (Bin laden, brainwashed followers, Khomeini) pissed all over the once great Arab reputaion of hospitality. IF you would leave your (probably) secluded town yo live in and actually visit the arab world you might not make yourself look as rediculous with your opinions.”

I would actually agree with you. As you may have noticed, I began this thread over a year ago. Since then, I deployed to Kuwait and then Iraq for Operation Iraqi Freedom. I was in Baghdad from early April through late August. While there, I spent countless hours interacting with the citizens of Baghdad and they were extremely hospitable. They loved us, and in spite of their wretched living conditions and poverty, they would offer us food, water, and anything else that they thought would help us.

I was wrong in saying that Arab culture is the enemy. I think it is more accurate to say that certain Arab and Persian societies (not all) are catalysts for the creation of terrorists and other enemies of mankind. For example, Palestinians seem to have nothing better to do than proclaim their hatred for Jews. A fair amount of the nutcases that we are fighting in Iraq are actually Syrians and Iranians. The nutjobs that flew planes into the Twin Towers were from Saudi Arabia and many of the madrasahs throughout the mideast, which instill hatred and intolerance into the Arab youth, are funded by Saudi money.

On a side note, I recently began reading “The Arab Mind” by Raphael Patai. Have you read this? If so, what is your opinion of it?

[aimhigh]

That is looked at as evil in the muslim world; it is considered rape. For rape, is capital punishment.

Islam is a corrupt religion. You can give us platitudes about Islam, but the example above is a zinger. Under Islamic law, a conviction for rape requires 4 male witnesses, who can testify to seeing the penetration. Otherwise the woman who brought the charge is jailed. Under Islam, rape is a protected sport. Rape of a Christian woman is easy, since the testimony of a Christian is invalid.

[Voice in your head]

So-called "Islamic law" varies from country to country. It is interpretation by the theocrats who hold power. For example, in some Arab countries, women are covered head to toe, in other Arab countries, they are not - it is an interpretation of the Koran's guideline that women dress conservatively.

[aimhigh]

Islamic law is based on the Sharia. Each Arab country might accept all or part of Sharia, but the Sharia is considered perfect Islamic law and is specific in application. One interesting point of Islam is that there is no punishment in Islam for those who kill apostates.

[Voice in your head]

What is the punishment in other religions?

[aimhigh]

In Christianity, apostates have the freedom to leave. In Hinduism, they can switch from god to god (thousands of choices).

[Voice in your head]

But what is the punishment for killing them?

[Incorrigible]

 

Say good knight to Crusade clichés [Paul Mulshine]

 

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

The topic of Isreal, alot of you people seem to show your ignorance when it comes to this. YES, suicide bombs in Israeli civilians is horrible, and I condemn it. the only thign that bugs me is that nobody botherd to look at how the problem started in the first place. A bunch of Zionists convinced the UN that because their holy book says current day ISrael belongs to the jews, that they should be able to kick all its inhabitants out, and form their own country with no regard to where they will live. Oh, and if they attempt to fight back, they are evil and shouldbe killed.

Actually, it is your ignorance and the willful ignorance and propaganda of your teachers that is showing. Ethnic violence in Palestine began with the Hebron Massacre in 1929 in which an Arab mob, enraged by a false rumor and violence the previous day in Jerusalem instigated by anti-semitic Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, went on a rampage to destroy the entire Jewish community in that town. 67 were killed and the rest (800) removed to Jerusalem. The Jewish military group Irgun was formed in response to it. The Arab Revolt of 1936 which was directed by the same mufti against Jews killed hundreds more. Irgun was reactivated in 1937 as a response. Three Arab armies and Palestinian Arab militias placed Israel in an almost untenable military position leading up to independence, with the intent to seize the Jewish state as soon as the British flag went down. When hostilities began, the Arabs ordered Palestinians to leave in order to create a clear killing field, fully expecting to win. They lost badly however. But falling into your own trap is not a cause for sympathy.

[Lady Heron]

The Crusade was in reaction to the slaughter of Christians by islamic hoards. Many of the worst things done in the Christian world have been done to stop the advances of islam and its demand of our conversion or death. There is no call for the killing of non-Christians in the Bible unlike the call for jihad in the koran and the subjection and conversion of the world to islam by the sword if necessary. To be a Christian is a personal choice unlike islam's demand for conversion or your death. The meaning of the sword on the Saudi flag.

[Lady Heron]

oh yeah, buddy, you forgot to mension that when the Crusaders intered JArusalem they also slaughtered every non-christian (Jewish civilians, Muslim civilians).

Oh yeah, just as you forgot to mention what started the Crusades in the first place, the muslims slaughtering the Christians there first.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Frankly I think we should be thankful that the Crusaders undertook their missions. Otherwise there's a good possiblity we'd all be speaking arabic now.

And if we don't watch out we're going to be in trouble again.

[Lady Heron]

Islam and Christianity have a lot more similarities than differences. You will find the story of the Virgin Mary and Jesus in the Quran as well.

Lie. Christianity and islam have nothing in common and it does not take a genius to see it.

We have produced totally different societies. I will take the freedoms of Protestant influenced America over any backward islamic country.

The story of the Virgin Mary and Jesus found in the koran claims the Bible is a lie and that Jesus was only a prophet who did not die on the cross and was not resurrected(I guess all of those people who knew Jesus and saw his resurrection and went to their deaths refusing to deny him went to their deaths for a lie, yeah right).

You just need look at islams deeds to see it is pure evil. It is not that hard to figure out. Any woman would be a fool to be a muslim. Only a man could get his jollys from it.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


- That describes Islam's continuing objection to Christians and Jews and what your future is if they have control. This passage is the central belief of militant Islamists. There is no getting around it. It makes clear that not only is anyone who does not believe in Islam to be killed or enslaved, but anyone who does not *enforce* Islam on those under and around them is an enemy. -


From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist."
"[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse."


- 9:12 & 9:32 make it clear that simple speech is considered an attack on Islam and to be responded to with force. -


From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse."


- As the foregoing shows, this is to be done by force. -


From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.38] O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is but little.
[9.39] If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.
[9.40] If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[9.41] Go forth light and heavy, and strive hard in Allah's way with your property and your persons; this is better for you, if you know."

Shakir Translation (searchable)
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

[antaresequity]

For me its allot easier [it needs to be]....

We are engaged in a crusade of liberty and freedom against a jihad of tyranny, terror and Islamic oppression.

I don't really care what the actual word definitions are...I know what it is, you know what it is, and the friggin islamo-terrorist rag heads know what it is...

I don't care if you call it tiddly-winks...

Every single Islamo-Facisit Terrorist or BELIEVER...should be eradicated from this planet.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Jihad is not about fighting infidels. It is about fighting infidels who are attacking either ISlam, or Islamic countries.

Read your Qur'an [Surah 9]. If I say openly "I don't believe Muhammad.", that is defined as an attack on Islam worthy of death. If Muslims can say what they want about others without retribution, that is an inequality and injustice that is worth going to war over.

[antaresequity]

Keln...

You are a voice in your own wilderness...Why the heck are there not more people who stand up and denounce the lunatic Bin Laden, his ilk, his ideas and everything that freak stands for?

There is somthing in the water in the Middle East. When the Shah got booted we got a huge influx of great people into this country from Iran...

Many have been my clients....

Why in the world are the 22 countries in the middle east veritable shitholes in terms of human rights, progress, prosperity and thought? Whilst we have millions of examples of great Arab ethnic folks like you, and my many clents here in the West doing just fine and not finding a need to dress their kids up in Suicide belts, wake up every friggin morning and chant to delirium while American flags burn and AK-47 are fired willy nilly into the sky?