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French are unmoved by US 'frog bashing'
The Times ^ | February 8, 2003 | Tim Reid and Charles Bremner

Posted on 02/07/2003 3:28:16 PM PST by MadIvan

“THE game is over,” President Bush told Iraq on Thursday.

“It’s not a game, and it’s not over,” Jean-Pierre Raffarin, the French Prime Minister, shot back yesterday. Thus the war of words between dovish France and hawkish America grew more rancorous.

There are three men in the world who would be wise for reasons of personal safety not to show their faces in America: Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and M Raffarin’s boss, President Chirac.

Middle America, egged on by hostile television networks and editorial writers, has been whipped into a rage against what is perceived as betrayal by the vain and preening French or, as they are now being characterised, “cheese-eating surrender monkeys”.

France was rescued by America in both World Wars, US commentators note as French obstructionist tactics at the United Nations thwart the campaign to get Saddam.

They mutter darkly about Germany’s anti-Americanism, but the vitriol has been almost exclusively directed at the French: the leader of the Franco-German “axis of weasel”.

“Let’s beat up the French,” the conservative co-host of CNN’s Crossfire programme declared on Thursday night. The audience cheered.

Later a viewer’s e-mail was flashed up on screen: “I understand that the French UN Ambassador was told to stop waving his hand in the air because it was inappropriate to surrender at the UN meeting.”

Bill Sammon, the White House correspondent for the Washington Times, said: “The Administration has come to the realisation that writing off France is not a bad thing politically . . . I think it plays pretty well.”

The British journalist Christopher Hitchens summed up US feelings in The Wall Street Journal: “Chirac. . .is a positive monster of conceit. . .a man so habituated to corruption that he would happily pay for the pleasure of selling himself.”

France is shrugging off what the left-wing daily Libération labelled “le frog-bashing” as a manifestation of the primitive prejudices now prevailing in a country with which it has a long tradition of rivalry.

Gallic commentators have taken a more detached view, seeing America’s anger as proof that Paris must be doing something right with its moral stand in favour of “peace”, while the US air waves and news pages have filled with anti-French vitriol in recent weeks.

“It’s a little tiresome,” one French diplomat said. “The Americans always throw tantrums like this when they don’t get their way.”

The condescension in this statement proves everything that the Americans are saying to be absolutely true - Ivan

But what did hit home was the dismissal by Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary, of France and Germany as “old Europe”.

The conservative Le Figaro, which has become even more anti-US than Libération, noted yesterday that France had replaced Iraq as the obsession of the “pen-wielding war-mongers” of the White House.

“The toughening of Washington’s position has confirmed the expected return to page one of an odious little character with a black beret, a cigarette in his mouth and baguette under his arm: France has not finished paying for the affront which it has inflicted on the muscular diplomacy of Uncle Sam,” it said.

The more outrageous American gibes are a source of French amusement.

M Chirac’s aides chuckled after Rush Limbaugh, a radio host, said that no one should trust a country with a Foreign Minister named Dominique de Villepin. With his aristocratic airs, the elegant M de Villepin is viewed even in France as a little hard to take.

The media have made much of the US tabloids’ dismissal of France with the “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” insult. Le Figaro nicely translated the line, which comes from The Simpsons television cartoon, as: primates capitulards et toujours en quête de fromages.

The media have also been struggling to decode a now famous New York Post headline denouncing France and Germany as “The Axis of Weasel”. Le Figaro translated this as l’axe des faux jetons — literally “the axis of the two-faced”.

There was also some admiration yesterday for the wordsmiths of the White House who are making good use of the English that is understood even by the French in President Bush’s statements. His “the game’s over” on Thursday night needed no French translation in a country long devoted to English-language café video games.

Over Iraq, the French are distinguishing between “good Americans” and “bad” ones. The latter are written off as right-wing fans of “le cowboy Bush”, such as George Will, a columnist who wrote this week that France was now performing “a manoeuvre which it has been perfecting since 1870: retreat”.

Good Americans are anti-war Democrats, Hollywood stars and the think-tank experts who give sympathetic replies in impeccable French to the anti-American rants of listeners on French radio shows.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons; US: District of Columbia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 1cheeseeating; 2surrendermonkeys; bashing; blair; bush; cheeseandwhine; cheeseeating; france; french; froginablender; frogs; iraq; isurrender; saddam; surrendermonkeys; uk; us
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To: humblegunner
Fighting a War without the French is like going deer hunting without an accordion.

After 5 min. I still have tears in my eyes...

61 posted on 02/07/2003 3:52:38 PM PST by my right
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To: MadIvan
Instead of frog bashing maybe we should go frog gigging.
The country folk will understand.
62 posted on 02/07/2003 3:52:45 PM PST by Just another Joe
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To: Conservateacher
Brings to mind a great idea. The Brits can get rid of their dead cattle by launching them across the sea into France. - actually what the British immigration officials did with asylum seekers the french allowed through the tunnel was welcomed them told them "well done you made it" and then put them on a train.....that train went to Paris!
63 posted on 02/07/2003 3:53:24 PM PST by Free_at_last_-2001
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To: Mamzelle
And somehow convince their hoes to shave their pits...
64 posted on 02/07/2003 3:53:55 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (This space for rent (Not accepting bids from the United Nations))
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To: MadIvan
For decades certain of our 'allies' have found it convenient to bad-mouth America and undermine our strategic interests. And why not? Such antics were popular in their own countries and carried little risk of adverse consequences.

But now Germany is casually included with Libya and Cuba by an American Secretary of Defense listing nations that offer us nothing useful as we prepare to defang Iraq. That after dismissing Germany and France as "Old Europe" just the week before. And the mere mention of France before an American audience elicits hisses of contempt.

The harumphing of the Germans and the elaborate condescension of the French mark their rising awareness of a sea change in international politics. Taking free shots at America from behind the safety of the American military umbrella was a good game, and it lasted a remarkably long time.

But now it appears that game is over.

65 posted on 02/07/2003 3:53:55 PM PST by Interesting Times (Avoid global cooling -- cruise the Caribbean on Freeps Ahoy!)
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To: MadIvan
“cheese-eating surrender monkeys” insult.
Le Figaro nicely translated the line,
which comes from The Simpsons television cartoon, as:

primates capitulards et toujours en quête de fromages.

I can do better than that. Try:

Fromage mangeant lache singe-crapauds.

66 posted on 02/07/2003 3:53:57 PM PST by Allan
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To: MadIvan
Q. Why don't they have fireworks at Euro Disney?

A. Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.
67 posted on 02/07/2003 3:54:03 PM PST by jimbo123
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To: MadIvan

68 posted on 02/07/2003 3:54:22 PM PST by areafiftyone (The U.N. is now officially irrelevant! The building is for Sale!!!)
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To: Free_at_last_-2001
Good one.
69 posted on 02/07/2003 3:54:40 PM PST by Godebert
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To: MadIvan
Actually the frogs are still POed we didn't really like the SHO SHO (obviously mispelled) machine guns, and got ride of them as fast as we cold.

I mean even the Charles De Gualle came up a little bit short.

70 posted on 02/07/2003 3:54:57 PM PST by dts32041 (Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4".)
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To: MadIvan
The French caused this ME problem in the first place. A. D. 1099, and it's been strike and counterstrike ever since.
71 posted on 02/07/2003 3:56:11 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: MadIvan
I have to admit, I thought I'd never see the day when America was at daggers drawn with France to the same level that Britain is. That day has come.

I think it's just wonderful.
And I am of French descent on my father's side, and so have a French last name. (Jenerette)
One of the best things my ancestors did was get out of France and come to the US. It was probably the greatest gift they could have ever given to their decendants. I am forever in debt to them.

Thankfully I have some other blood mixed in, mostly English on my mother's side...which of course I am much more proud to identify with.
The French disgust me.

72 posted on 02/07/2003 3:56:17 PM PST by Jorge
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To: MadIvan
from: http://www.gopfun.com/

Breaking News...

French to join war on Iraq
Clinton News Network | 30 Jan 03 | John Smith

Paris - In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac announced today that the French government will be supporting the War on Terror after all. Five hundred soldiers from the elite L’Abandonnement du Field d’Honneur Battalion (French Surrender Battalion) of the Legion Etrangere (Foreign Legion) are in the process of shipping out to Iraq where they will assist the elite Iraqi Republican Guards in their inevitable surrender to the overwhelming might of the American Armed Forces. “Eet ees important to be haughty and insufferable when surrendering,” said Colonel Philippe de Peepee, the Commanding Officer of the Surrender Battalion, who has personally surrendered in over 200 battles going back to Dien Bien Phu in 1954. “We French are the world masters at surrendering, n’est ce pas, not like you arrogant Americans who never surrender. Ha, I spit on your filthy American victories.”

President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3000 advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateur Francaise (French Collaboration Force) to assist the Iraqis in collaborating with the Americans while pretending to be part of a non-existent resistance movement.

Stay tuned for updates to this breaking story....


73 posted on 02/07/2003 3:56:49 PM PST by FourPeas
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To: my right
Me, too. Especially since the French are famous for playing accordians...nice touch. I love the French-bashing threads here on FR. Such a party atmosphere...Did you catch the "minkey" a la Inspector Clouseau?
74 posted on 02/07/2003 3:58:11 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: MadIvan

Look, in days of Olde when people still attended C of E (that is, before the lamentable rise of Roy Jenkins), this could be grounds for a cross between football hooliganism and a No Popery riot.

The Frogs are just being plain stupid. When time comes to divvie up the spoils, they'll have to get in line behind the Russians.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

75 posted on 02/07/2003 3:58:42 PM PST by section9 (The girl in the picture is Major Motoko Kusanagi from "Ghost In the Shell". Any questions?)
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To: MadIvan
Aside from nationalist issues, this tension has been building since 9-11, because the Western world is now split into two political camps. Briefly:

The French and Germans believe in trusting the State to keep individuals properly behaved, the legacy of Rousseau and others. They tend to trust government (and its institutions) more than individuals. Thus, it's not surprising that respect for the UN, EC and even communism (a type of statism) always found a welcoming home in France.

By contrast England, the US, and others believe in the power of the individual citizen to keep the state on good behavior. We have an innate slepticism of government and its institutions, born out of revolutions and wars. Communism will never have a home in this environment.

And the two views are not only opposites, they're completely incompatible. So there's no point in trying to bring the French around with our logic; they simply view the world in a different way, and always will.
76 posted on 02/07/2003 3:59:17 PM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: MadIvan
Hey Frenchies, eat this...

(yes, it's frog legs.)

77 posted on 02/07/2003 3:59:25 PM PST by Mark Felton
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To: dfwgator
"Nah, French-bashing is too much fun"

Q: In fraunce, how do they seperate ze men from ze boys ?











A: With crowbars!
78 posted on 02/07/2003 4:00:11 PM PST by yournamehere
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To: MadIvan
I think we should tell the germans we are really, really, sorry. That we made a terrible mistake during WW2 and that they can have France back... only problen is I think they already do.
79 posted on 02/07/2003 4:00:19 PM PST by Diana Rose (All that Y2K prep. is now finally good for something)
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To: MadIvan
MadIvan wrote: I have to admit, I thought I'd never see the day when America was at daggers drawn with France to the same level that Britain is. That day has come.

Unlike the Brits, Americans will put their antipathy into action.

French products for sale in the U.S. will go begging and Americans will avoid vacations in France.

The Frogs were already complaining last year about Americans staying home.

Incidently, there is a report that Senator Richard Lugar — a real foreign-relations heavyweight in the GOP — has warned France and Russia that if they don't come on board they will be excluded from post-war participation in the Iraqi oil business.

80 posted on 02/07/2003 4:00:56 PM PST by quidnunc
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