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This Bus Goes Nowhere (A Rational Look at the Shuttle)
The feared and hated lewrockwell.com ^ | 2/5/03 | Vin Suprynowicz

Posted on 02/05/2003 4:43:37 AM PST by from occupied ga

 

This Bus Goes Nowhere

by Vin Suprynowicz

On Saturday, Feb. 1, most Americans were surprised and saddened as we awakened to the news that six federal government employees (five military officers and a civilian engineer) and a brave Israeli Air Force colonel had burned up and died as the creaky 21-year-old Space Bus Columbia overheated and broke up on re-entry over Texas after a 16-day pointless mission in near earth orbit.

By all indications these were seven smart, fine, brave and decent folk. All but Dr. Kalpana Chawla were where the military told them to be, and thus deserve our respect and gratitude as do any servicemen who die in the line of duty. They leave behind spouses and children and dogs; a day of sadness and respect was doubtless appropriate.

On the other hand, were flags dropped to half staff all around the nation the last time we lost a handful of guys in helicopter training accidents? These were seven adults who knew or should have known the risks, and one confidently assumes they all had liberal tax-paid survivor benefits. I’m sorry they’re gone, but there is really no justification here for suspending all our faculties of reason and analysis as we rush to show off our patriotic crocodile tears.

I particularly refer to the thoroughly predictable call that, "We certainly can’t suspend or cut back our space program – now – of all times. Why, that would be an appalling admission of a national weakness of the heart and of the spirit in the face of adversity."

No it wouldn’t. After the 1937 Hindenburg disaster in Lakehurst, N.J. – from which most of the passengers walked away unscathed, by the way (something you certainly can’t say about most of our modern-day plane crashes) – did the people rise en masse to declare, "We must now redouble our efforts to expand and continue commercial dirigible passenger service – any other course would be a pathetic admission of defeat for the human race in the face of a minor technical setback"?

Um ... no.

Yes, I realize the Hindenburg was German, not American. But so what? The point is that commercial dirigible passenger travel ended essentially overnight, and the progress of modern science and technology continued without missing a beat. They were slow and highly vulnerable to bad weather even after you got past that little hydrogen problem, as our Navy found out with the helium-safe Macon.

A few brave souls occasionally suggest bringing back rigid-frame airships for their cargo-lifting capacity, and I wish them well. But the technological progress of the modern world proceeded just fine without commercial Zeppelin travel, just as it will get along just fine – in fact, better, as vast confiscated resources now wasted on government Space Pork are freed to flow into more promising avenues – after our fleet of lumbering space buses, 90-ton, billion-dollar hollow aluminum "all-purpose" meteorites that do nothing particularly well but cost a whole lot doing it, are finally mothballed.

As is now likely to happen sooner than later, no matter how NASA tries to wave the flags, enlist the schoolchildren in writing letters about their "hopes and dreams," and other such shopworn piffle.

Why does the space shuttle carry seven people? Because it was designed with seven seats. The fact that what little these lumbering space buses accomplish could easily be executed by a crew of two or three is clearly demonstrated by the way their "crew" manifests have progressively become toys of patronage and public relations.

You know that not much of importance is going on when they can offer free seats to schoolteachers and foreign dignitaries and septuagenarian senators, as they’ve been doing for years now. The American public has for years unquestioningly accepted without question the baldfaced assertion of "valuable science experiments" being done up there, but where’s the real independent cost accounting? One widely publicized shuttle experiment involved determining whether spiders would build symmetrical webs in zero gravity – I seem to recall some schoolchild dreamed that one up to win a contest.

And anything demanding careful measurement in zero-gravity conditions could – certainly – be done better without seven human chimps bouncing around, bumping into the bulkheads as they try to figure out how to use the porta-potty.

Yes, shuttles have lofted numerous scientific instruments into space, "but only because policy makers mandated that the equipment be configured so they could fly only on the shuttle, and not on Apollo-era booster rockets," reporter Sharon Begley revealed in the Feb. 3 Wall Street Journal.

"From the first flight of the Columbia itself in 1981, the scientific community has viewed the shuttle as a black hole for space dollars," Begley writes, "sucking them up and sending back almost nothing in return."

The "science" on the space shuttle has been made up, quite simply, to create a "scientific" rationale for this billion-dollar bus route to nowhere. From studies of protein crystallization to the behavior of fire in zero gravity, "There is no experiment that has been done on the space shuttle that has made a significant difference to any field of science," according to physicist Robert Park of the American Physical Society in College Park, Maryland.

NASA has to publish the results of such twaddle itself because "They’re not cutting edge science, by and large," agrees Alex Roland, professor of the history of technology at Duke University. "There’s a lot of make-work going on up there," Professor Roland told Ms. Begley of the Journal, as a result of which the results of the shuttle "experiments" are hardly ever published in "refereed scientific journals."

FAILS CRUCIAL SPECIFICATIONS

Why do we need the space shuttle? Why, because valuable science is being done up there, we’re told, measuring the astronauts’ urine production and reaction to weightlessness.

And why is that valuable?

Because it facilitates future shuttle missions.

Ah, so a multi-billion dollar program is proven valuable because it facilitates doing more of the same thing, later. Have I got that right?

Well, wait a minute, you’re forgetting that then there’s the "International Space Station" – surely the most ludicrously inflated title ever bestowed on an over-budget orbiting tin can full of sweat stink that would get you convicted of child abuse if you were to lock any child inside it on a typical schoolyard playground for as little as an hour.

Yes, our submariners once put up with worse. But there’s no imperial Japanese space fleet up there for us to stalk and sink, in case you haven’t noticed.

The shuttle is needed to supply and relieve the "International Space Station," you see. And the reason we need an "International Space Station" is ... well, to give the space shuttle something to do.

The notion that this was all preparing us for a manned mission to Mars was abandoned decades ago. The main priority of any government bureaucracy is – always – to keep itself going at any cost. If they’ve learned all they can possibly learn at this point, and all the objective analyses show the safest and most cost-effective option is to simply mothball these beasts, do you think NASA’s administrators are actually going to – tell – us that?

The space shuttles were originally designed to fly every week or two, but they actually need a complete (and enormously expensive) rebuild after each mission, meaning they can fly only once a year. Which explains why the ancient, groaning Columbia, which was supposed to fly 100 missions in a couple years and then retire, was being launched (with many fingers crossed) on only her 28th mission last month, after 21 years in service!

There aren’t many 21-year-old vehicles I’d even drive across the country, let along subject to temperatures high enough to melt steel at Mach 18 or 25.

The shuttle was supposed to be able to "pay its way" with commercial payloads, but has never even come close – NASA no longer even pretends to be trying. The shuttle was supposed to carry spacemen to repair satellites in high earth orbit, but it can’t. It’s too heavy and it can’t go high enough. It missed many of its original mission specifications, at which point it should and would have been canceled before it ever got off the drawing boards, except that NASA had no other project big enough to keep everyone in work. So the shuttle can only repair faultily designed telescopes (do you suppose government could have had anything to do with that?) set in low earth orbit to give it something to do, or else – launch – satellites from low earth orbit into high earth orbit, which is ludicrous, since that job can be done at a tiny fraction of the cost (and far more safely) with unmanned boosters.

In fact, the Space Shuttle is little more than an enormous make-work jobs program for a large segment of the "Aerospace Industry," whose potentially productive members should have been cut loose and encouraged to go apply their talents to profitable, free-market endeavors 30 years ago, after they got us to the moon ... which – itself – was little more than a Cold War political publicity stunt designed to potlatch the Soviet Union into bankruptcy – a goal we accomplished 13 years ago, in case no one in Houston or Cape Canaveral has noticed.

What’s that? The space program has given us charcoal filters, miniaturized computers, and the powdered orange-flavored fruit drink "Tang"? Right you are. At development costs in the billions of dollars, and possibly a few months faster than they would have been developed by private entrepreneurs trying to sell us better wristwatches, TVs, and home computers ... though even that is impossible to prove, given the way government intervention always messes up asset allocations.

A GOVERNMENT MONOPOLY

Listen to these desperate charlatans crow that "We can’t abandon the space program – now – of all times. In the face of adversity," these table pounders demand, "are we ready to turn tail and give up part of what makes American unique and great?"

How does this differ, really, from the statement of some headstrong barbarian Irish chieftain that "I alone in all the land am great enough to drive one thousand slaves, one thousand virgins, and one thousand head of prime cattle off the cliffs in sacrifice each year at the celebration of Bron Trogain. Why should I stop? This alone proves that Ailil of Cruachan is the greatest king in all the land, does it not? Does anyone else have such wealth to throw away?! Am I not great and fearsome?"

As we speak, a dozen cashiered NASA whistle-blowers are desperately trying to get the media’s attention to tell their "I told them this would happen" whistle-blower stories, and the NASA chieftains are just as busy shredding all those "I can’t believe you’re going to fly this thing again without the redesign and refit you promised us" memos, while closing ranks and doubtless blackmailing (remember those death benefits) even the weeping widows to come forward and tell America, "My husband will have died for nothing if you suspend this program now ... Jim wouldn’t have wanted that."

Please leave the widows in peace, guys. Don’t you think they’ve already sacrificed enough?

I’ve been accused in the past of lacking vision, of being "against space exploration."

But that’s not true. These seven victims of a superannuated government boondoggle weren’t "pushing back the frontiers of space," as we were repeatedly told over the weekend of Feb. 1. (Don’t get me started on the television press corps, pretentiously intoning that "NASA now gets to work on getting the space shuttles back where they belong – into space." There’s objective analysis for you. To which channel do I flip to hear someone announce that "NASA now gets to work on getting these space shuttles where they belong – into a museum"?

In fact, these seven victims were riding an enormously expensive government commuter bus to nowhere.

If some private entrepreneur, having bought NASA’s left-over space junk at a bankruptcy auction, wants to sell shares and launch a venture to mine the asteroids for precious metals, or endeavor to demonstrate the colonization of Mars can be safe and cost-effective (there actually is such a fellow – Dr. Robert Zubrin), let him or her proceed with my blessing.

(Government didn’t develop the airplane, or the locomotive, or the steamship. Why should it have a monopoly on space? If the answer is that "government is now bigger than any private corporation," isn’t that just another way of stating the same problem?)

But there is nothing unpatriotic about asking why we continue to shoehorn seven sacrificial victims at a time into these big orbiting aluminum buses, just to prove ... what? That we’re the only ones who can afford to waste billions of dollars shoehorning seven sacrificial victims at a time into big orbiting aluminum buses?

Watch four government workmen change the lightbulb in a stoplight. Watch your state government waste millions and anger and frustrate hundreds of thousands snarling up a totally unnecessary "motor vehicle registration" scam. Government messes up everything it touches ... after convincing us that exceeding the budget by a factor of 10, and producing results astonishingly below initial promises, is "close enough for government work."

The only reason it’s not now "time to end the government space program" .... is that it was time to end the government space program, 30 years ago.

Vin Suprynowicz [send him mail] is assistant editorial page editor of the daily Las Vegas Review-Journal and author of the books Send in the Waco Killers and The Ballad of Carl Drega. For information on his books or his monthly newsletter dial 702-656-3285; write 3172 N. Rainbow Boulevard, Suite 343, Las Vegas, NV 89108; or visit his Web site.

February 5, 2003

Vin



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: columbia; disaster; shuttle
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To: bvw
Thank you! Good Thread!
61 posted on 02/05/2003 12:02:50 PM PST by dasboot
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To: All
I was understating: this is a GREAT thread!

Where, oh where would one ever get this kind of breadth and depth on any opinion or article. There's nothing on earth better than FR.

Thanks, all you learned, opinionated ones, for participating.

62 posted on 02/05/2003 12:09:36 PM PST by dasboot
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To: HamiltonJay
We aren't ever going to agree. You look at government and see one thing. I look at the same thing and see exactly the opposite for example, you say

You on a municipal line for water or power? Likelihood very good government money helped build those faclities.

You see something that helps quality of life. I see tax dollars taken and spent wastefully for something that private industry could do better (an example is Atlanta - a corrupt African People's Democracy if ever there was one) Even in Atlanta privatization of the water system is saving $8,000,000 a year.

Another example - you say

The fact you can buy private property and be reasonably sure that it won't be taken away by some schyster with a fake deed is because of government

You see protection of private property. I see the property tax system that ensures that if you don't pay an annual bribe to the county/state your property will be taken away by some schyster with a real deed. And so it goes.

I don't think I will ever convince you, and I know you won't convince me.

63 posted on 02/05/2003 12:13:40 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
Private industry saves 8MM a year operating the infrastructure vs the government equivalent.. I can believe that... what you ignore though, is where was the private industry when that water system was needed so that Atlanta could grow and be a safer place? Were they finding the money to build that infrastructure privately ? Hell no, THEY NOWHERE TO BE FOUND!

The system that keeps track of your deed and property btw is a neccessary function if you want private property... I suppose you would prefer a communist state? You can deride government all day long, fact is, even though you don't want to recognize or appreciate it, the government you hate so much allows you a life that most on this planet will never see. That's the beauty of america... you can be ignorant of what you have and still be free to rant.

64 posted on 02/05/2003 12:36:52 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: bvw
BVW,

I recalled reading somewhere years ago, Intel was funded in its growth and research by a joint private/government parntership.. will have to see if I can find the article again... I may be wrong... of course if you take it all the way back, computing begins with British government funding of Lovelace and Touring if I am not mistaken.

65 posted on 02/05/2003 12:40:10 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: All
An opportunity lost (QuickTime movie)
66 posted on 02/05/2003 12:46:37 PM PST by B-Chan (Ad Astra Per Ardua)
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To: HamiltonJay
All right let's show your ignorance. Typically infrastructure improvements are financed through bonds. This is PRIVATE money being loaned to government at a sweetheart interest rate that government cuts for itself by making the interest tax exempt (unless of course you qualify for the AMT, but that's another subject). There is no reason that a private company couldn't do exactly the same thing, and wouldn't have to finance all of the exotic vacations and big tacket expense items that the government bureaucrats treat themselves to at our expense. Oddly enough private property existed long before county records offices came into being.

the government you hate so much allows you a life that most on this planet will never see.

Utter horse sh!t. I don't so much deride government as hold its venal plundering pompous bureaucrats who feel self qualified to run everyone's life in utter contemp. Government pillages far more today than it did ever before in the history of the country including WWII, and to what effect? Vast wealth transfer programs like NASA like the ethanol fuel garbage, like the $15billion for African AIDS. The list is endless. None of these things enhances the quality of life for anyone except those who draw big fat paychecks from or sell inflated goods and services to the government. Every penny taxed away to be spent foolishly by bureaucrats is a penny lost to what the taxpayer really wanted.

Pierre Proudhon said it quite well:

"To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be governed is to be at every operation, at every transaction, noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished."
I wich I'd thought of it first, but obviously the problem has been around a long time.
67 posted on 02/05/2003 12:56:28 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: B-Chan
Check these babies out.
68 posted on 02/05/2003 12:58:44 PM PST by Jim Noble
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To: from occupied ga
I mostly agree with you; but I think government funding of certain research is necessary and proper when the fruits of that federally-funded research redounds to the benefit of National Defense, or other constitutional duties with which our federal government has been charged.

A prosperous nation that wishes to be protected from aggression MUST advance the technology of warfare, or be vulnerable to injury and conquest.

And, as to public works projects, if the government has to build it, most likely not everyone wants it. In a free society, there is no obsticle to prevent those who will benefit from this or that project, from likewise funding it. (To believe that no visionaries could exist outside of government is vile hubris. If there is profit in a thing, it will be accomplished.) Successfully lobbying government to become the financier of such things increases the benefit to the developers unnaturally, and forces all to pay for the wealth and convenience of some. (If a group wishes a road to be built, they must pay market value for the right-of-way; the government can "take" it) The folks who could do without are forced to pay for them that have want. That ain't right.

I think there is some discrimination required in the screed...both ways; key words: necessary, proper.

69 posted on 02/05/2003 1:05:16 PM PST by dasboot
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To: from occupied ga
Coulda woulda shoulda, but DIDN'T(a)... Again, where are those private companies? Nowhere.... no one is arguing they COULD be doing those things, the reality that you choose to keep ignoring is the DON'T AND AREN'T. Anything "COULD" happen, but this isn't the world of pixie dust and faries... and reality is, it DOESN'T happen. Who's out there doing the improvement? Sure isn't the private sector, sure they could take out loans and do it, but guess what, they won't, and don't... living in the world of COULDA won't get you far.

Your counter to the records offices is an interesting take, so you are suggesting that county recording offices just came about for the sake of taxing low citizen, and bilking him... not, as history shows, out of a need to protect the private landholder from false claims against his deed? I see, so the entire system is nothing more than a scam to get your property taxes out of you... it doesn't do a damned thing to help society at all... man you are one really angry person... Government law historically occur out of need, not out of desire... is their pork? SUre, always has been always will be... same is true in private industry... or did you miss that little Worldcom, Enron, Global Crossing, dot bomb little chaos not long ago?

Don't want to believe me? Look for example right now at the movie industry... they are caught time and again marketing adult material to kids.... they promise not to do it again, make up some voluntary system they follow for a while, then ignore when the heats off, heat returns they do it again.. currently we are in about the 3rd or 4th round of this cycle... eventually because the industry won't self govern, laws will happen... not because government says, hey we like passing laws, but because repeated attempts to let private industry do what is right, have failed.

It is obvious you loathe government, and that is your choice. As to vast utter wealth transfers, I hardly consider a program such as NASA that consumes less than 1.5% of the annual budget as some huge wealth redistribution, especially considering that the government takes in far far far more than that from sources other than your income tax. You rant against the 15B Aids plan over the next what 5 years? In budget terms you are talking less than 1-2% annually... again revenues are far more than that from sources other than income tax... you wish to pick a redistribution policy, pick something better to rant against.

None of these things enhances the quality of life for anyone

Few million people suffering from a horrid disease who would argue it does enhance their quality of life... I suppose if you are poor black person from Africa, you obviously aren't "ANYONE" in your mind... glad to see you put your cards openly on the table. So you just stay in your little world.

70 posted on 02/05/2003 1:25:36 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: dasboot
Actually I agree that military R&D is constitutionally valid.
71 posted on 02/05/2003 1:26:39 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: ez
The international space station is in orbit at about 250 miles above the earth. Depending on weight of payload the shuttle has a limit of about 400 miles. Geostationary orbit is 23,000 miles and is the orbit used by stationary communications sats.

Ther lift capacity of the shuttle is less than 1/5th that of the now defunct Appolo Rocket for Low Earth Orbit.
72 posted on 02/05/2003 1:39:11 PM PST by Investment Biker
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To: from occupied ga
BTTT
73 posted on 02/05/2003 2:14:02 PM PST by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: HamiltonJay
2 lost missions to mars

Mars is a tough one. 62% of the probes sent so far have failed utterly. 38% have sent at least a mouse-squeek of data, and a handful of those have worked splendidly.

74 posted on 02/05/2003 5:20:50 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: HamiltonJay
I need to add a class of people with whom it is impossible to have a rational discussion. Along with Democrats, gun haters and creationists I need to add fanatical statists such as yourself

Who's out there doing the improvement

United Water runs municipal water systems over the entire US for considerably less than the local graberments do.

Corporate electric companies build their own transmission and generation facilities paid for by ther stock and bond holders. Your statement that the transmission lines are paid for by government is total and absolute fabrication on your part. TVA is government run, but it is the most mismanaged electrical system in the USA. Its rates are the highest for any that have similar generation mix and its nuclear plants are a safety nightmare (Ever heard of Browns Ferry?)

so you are suggesting that county recording offices just came about for the sake of taxing low citizen, and bilking him.

Yes. Absolutely. County records offices are for the purpose of registering real property for taxation. Just like auto registration is for the purpose of taxation. Both exist primarily to ensure that nothing tangible escapes the tax man's greedy grasp. They are government inventories of assets that the government shears annually. Your statement

not, as history shows, out of a need to protect the private landholder from false claims against his deed?

Is nothing but statist propaganda without any basis in reality. History shows no such thing.

Likewise your statement "Government law historically occur out of need, not out of desire" Is nothing but moonbeams. Government rose out of plunder and conquest. The history of government was and is nothing but a Darwininan struggle with the strongest group subjugating and looting the assests of those unable to resist. This is what goes on today in Kongress with the top 5% earners paying 37% of the income taxes.

I love it when you statists turn to personal attacks "... man you are one really angry person... " This comes right from the liberal play book. I believe it is on page two just after "but it's for the children" It says "When they point out how the system screws people call them angry."

...Worldcom, Enron, Global Crossing ...

This is totally irrelevant. No one forces you at gunpoint to buy the products or services of these companies. You have no choice about paying for government "services" whether or not you use them - nice racket.

You rant against the 15B Aids plan over the next what 5 years? In budget terms you are talking less than 1-2% annually

I see, because it isn't a whole lot it's OK. If we follow your "logic" Then we can conclude it's OK to steal as long as you don't take more than a few percent of a person's assets. I find it hard to believe that you actually consider yourself a conservative with these ideas. Of couse people like McCain and Chaffee probably consider themselves conservatives too.

I've long since concluded that discourse with you is a waste of my time. You refuse to acknowledge to obvious and come up with the standard liberal justifications for wealth transfer. Snoore - you're boring me.

75 posted on 02/06/2003 4:38:34 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
You need to add another group to your list, those are people whos view of reality is so skewed by they believe the entire world is out to get them, or like yourself are paranoid.

You claim that government grew out of a desire to subjugate is so patently rediculous that it would be comical if you truly didn't believe it. The earliest forms of government known were tribe, their chiefs and counsils, not dictatorships and totatlitarianisms. Their goals were not subjugation of their family, but the further survival of it... but of course your cracked view of the world will never allow this to be accepted.

Private property and contract law are two of the most fundamental concepts neccessary for a free society, yet you believe the instruments of law that support the defense of those rights are nothing more than scams to get a few bucks from you. Pathetic.

Have you ever dealt with a deed or title issue on your property? I have, and I can tell you right now, without that "scam" as you want to call it, private property could not effectively exist... anyone with a piece of paper and an axe to grind could lay claim to your land... But of course, heaven forbid something government does is useful.

You can keep labeling me names, and thats fine, you are completely dillusional and blinded by ideology, so labeling those that aren't is the last defense of the weak argument.

As to your attempt to counter laws come more often then not out of neccessity, you really didn't counter it... you didn't even acknowledge the example given... which of course you can't because your ideological ignorance forces you to ignore facts. Labor laws grew out of need, not out of a mad grab for power... THe laws that will force the movie industry to stop marketing adult material to kids will come out of need not desire... how many attempts at self regulation were given? THe food safety laws that let you eat prepared foods without likelihood of death came out of need, not desire... and the "private" industry other than a few exceptions such as Heinz fought it tooth and nail.. because what's a few thousand deaths a year when measured against profits? The laws didn't come out of desire to rule, but out of inability of the private industries to self regulate... You are in complete dreamland when you make copious and patently ignorant statements about how government does no good, is all about screwing you and should do nothing but fight wars.

I love private industry, I have made a very good living off of it. I have seen the system work, I have been rewarded for helping bring new products to the marketplace, but don't dillude yourself for one minute into think the profit motive always results in a proper outcome. ENRON et al are perfect examples of this, though you can whine you don't have to buy their products... fact is, yea lots of people were FORCED into buying ENRON's products... they artificially played with the wholesale price of electricity and their meddling was forced upon nearly every consumer in the country... so, please get off your private industry high horse. Private industry is subject to the same greed, corruption and self serving as the power mad beaurocrat.

Your assumption that Private industry will do what is right and provide a just outcome without oversight is flat out ludicrous. Go look at some of the countries of the world where few or little laws mandate corporate behaviors... you want to see a mess, you will find them in spades... but of course since private industry can do no wrong, and private industry is god to you... you I am sure will rationalize the death, harm and anguish they provide, after all private industry is the holy grail, and government is the devil.

I hate to break this to you, but you really aren't that important. I know, you can't believe it, but the government really could give a flying hoot about you... its not in existance to get ya... though obviously you believe they are... because, and I know this is hard to believe, but if they did want to get ya.. you would no longer be verticle. Get over your self dillusional state.

ANd as to my comments on the budget, you missed the point entirely. Your arguements are cenetered around the fact that government is funded by your income tax.. reality is, government has many streams of income, not all of them come from income tax. Personally I want the income tax gone, not only from the ideological standpoint of its immoral, because I believe it is, but just as importantly to shut up the whining self absorbed groups that always scream "MY MONEY SHOULDN"T BE USED FOR xxx".... Get away from an income tax, and you solve both problems... then government can focus on doing what it needs to be done without all these paranoid schizos ranting and raving every time something is done.
76 posted on 02/06/2003 5:54:52 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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