Posted on 02/04/2003 3:42:54 AM PST by kattracks
Washington (CNSNews.com) - A video presented at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington appears to suggest that former President Abraham Lincoln would have supported modern-day, left-of-center political causes such as homosexual rights, abortion rights and the modern feminist agenda.
One tourist from Wisconsin, who viewed the video in the memorial's Lincoln Legacy Room, called it "awful" and said the "political correctness of it is beyond words." Other visitors to the memorial told CNSNews.com they believe the video clearly implies that Lincoln would have supported left-wing political causes.
A National Park Service spokesman told CNSNews.com he was "reluctant" to comment on the Lincoln video because the whole issue had the "potential to be quite controversial."
The video features an actor who sounds like Lincoln speaking about the Civil War and slavery. He then leads into clips of Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington.
About halfway through the approximately eight-minute video, footage of modern-day marchers is shown over "Lincoln's" booming voice as patriotic music and songs associated with the civil rights movement play.
At this point, the video shows snippets from modern-day marches. A sign reading, "The Lord is my Shepard and Knows I am Gay" kicks off a series of visuals featuring left-wing social causes, while "Lincoln's voice" and patriotic music blare.
The other visuals include signs reading "Gay & Lesbian Sexual Rights," "Council of Churches Lesbian Rights," "National Organization for Woman" (NOW), "Reagan's Wrongs Equal Woman's Rights," "ERA Yes," "Ratify the Era," "I had an illegal abortion in 1967 - Never Again," "Keep Abortion Legal," "I am pro-choice America," a Vietnam-era video clip of a woman asking: "President. Nixon where are our men?" and a sign reading, "Who will Decide NARAL (National Abortion Rights & Reproductive Action League).
The video features the theme song of the civil rights movement, "We Shall Overcome," and continues with visual display of liberal causes, including signs reading "In Opposition to King Richard [Nixon]," "U.S. out Now," "Equal Opportunity for All," "Peace," "Hell No We Won't Go," "No More Lies, Sign the Treaty Now Coalition," and marchers chanting U.S. Out Now" (crowd chanting).
The video also features an excerpt from a Martin Luther King speech and then progresses into a banner reading "Pass the Brady [Gun Control] Bill Now." Pro-life demonstrators appear in the video once, in a brief clip where they are shown clashing with abortion rights activists. No other political causes that could be considered right-of-center appear in the video.
'Beyond Words'
CNSNews.com asked several of the tourists visiting the memorial what they thought of the video and whether they believed it implied Lincoln would support modern-day causes such as homosexual rights and abortion rights.
"I liked it... I think [Lincoln] would have [supported homosexual and abortion rights] because that's how Lincoln was; he was very supportive of the people. He didn't care who you are and what you are, he loved everybody," said Elizabeth Baksi, a high school student from Houma, La., after viewing the video.
Darre Klain of Baltimore, Md., also agreed that Lincoln would have supported today's liberal political causes as implied in the video.
[Lincoln] seemed like a very progressive, forward-thinking man, ahead of his time," Klain said.
But Paul Meisius of Sheboygan, Wis., rejected the video's message as he interpreted it, and he chastised the National Park Service for showcasing it.
"That's awful," Meisius said as he finished watching the video. "The political correctness of it is beyond words. I don't think that's proper. They are giving themselves credit to be able to say whatever they want about Lincoln's political views," Meisius told CNSNews.com.
"Our national monuments are being stripped of their true heritage. They are being uprooted and taken and changed. It's an atrocity that they are rewriting history in the sense that these people have political agendas," Meisius said.
Meisius, who was visiting Washington, D.C., with his wife and five children, believes the video is an attack by revisionist historians.
"The wrongness and incorrectness of this -- this stripping of the true essential biblical aspects of our foundation - are being replaced by political correctness," he said.
Angela Brewer, a program instructor for the Close Up Foundation, a citizenship education organization, denied the Lincoln video implied the former president would have supported modern-day, left-wing social causes.
"[The Lincoln Memorial] has frequently has been used as a backdrop for groups that seem to me to be liberal. I don't know that there is a particular purpose behind [the video]," Brewer said.
Gary Perkins, who coordinates exhibits at the Sweetwater Historical Museum in Green River, Wyo., has written about the difficulty our national museums face when presenting historical materials. Perkins believes that the National Park Service may be guilty of historical overreach with the video in question.
"We do not know what Abraham Lincoln thought of gay rights. We have no clue, he never talked about it," Perkins said after hearing CNSNews.com's description of the Lincoln Memorial video.
"We can't really infer he supported gay rights," Perkins added.
'Quite Controversial'
Bill Line, a spokesman for the National Park Service's National Capital Region, told CNSNews.com that the Discovery Channel produced the video for the Lincoln Memorial.
Asked if the video intentionally makes it appear as though Lincoln would have supported homosexual rights, abortion rights and feminist causes, Line was unequivocal in his initial answer.
"I have seen the video, and I don't know how you can contrive that out of it," Line said.
However, after specific examples of "liberal causes" were pointed out to him, Line backed away from his previous comment.
"I am reluctant, quite frankly, to say much to you because I don't know the whole other premise that you are coming from or the background or the fuller context that the story is being written in, and it has potential to be quite controversial," Line explained.
Finally, Line announced he needed to see the video again before he would have any official comment.
"It's been a while since I reviewed the videotape. Before I can adequately comment and give to you something you can use in your story, I need to go and review that videotape myself," Line said.
As of press time, Line had not contacted CNSNews.com with further comment on the video.
'Left-wing gestapo'
Cultural critic David Horowitz was not surprised by the description of the video that CNSNews.com provided. Horowitz believes that left-wing political perspectives are the dominant philosophy of the curators of the U.S.'s national monuments. Horowitz, a former 1960s radical, is co-founder of the Los Angeles-based Center for the Study of the Popular Culture.
"The whole museum field has been taken over by the left wing Gestapo," Horowitz said.
"People have to wake up. This is the America hating left. It is in charge of our national monuments. It's a disgrace and testament to how the academic history profession is totally dominated by the political left," Horowitz said.
E-mail a news tip to Marc Morano.
Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.
OK. Here ya go:
'I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, ---that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois", 8 Sep 1858, Vol. III, pp. 145-146.'Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get from me an answer to the question whether I am in favor of negro-citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of negro citizenship.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois", 8 Sep 1858, Vol. III, p. 179.'I have all the while maintained, that in so far as it should be insisted that there was an equality between the white and black races that should produce a perfect social and political equality, it was an impossibility. This you have seen in my printed speeches, and with it I have said, that in their right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," as proclaimed in that old Declaration, the inferior races are our equals.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Fifth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas, at Galesburg, Illinois", 7 Oct 1858, Vol. III, pp. 221-222.'There is a physical difference between the two which in my judgment will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln , Roy P. Basler, ed., "Speech at Columbus, Ohio", 16 Sep 1859, Vol. III, p. 402.' But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. ... The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes", 14 Aug 1862, Vol. V, p. 372.'The compromises of the constitution we must all stand by, but where is the justness of extending the institution [slavery] to compete with white labor and thus to degrade it? Is it not rather our duty to make labor more respectable by preventing all black competition, especially in the territories?'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Speech at Carlinville, Illinois", 31 Aug 1858, Vol. III, p. 79.'Then I say if this principle is established [the spread of slavery should be restricted], that there is no wrong in slavery, and whoever wants it has a right to have it, is a matter of dollars and cents, a sort of question as to how they shall deal with brutes, that between us and the negro here there is no sort of question, but that at the South the question is between the negro and the crocodile.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Speech at Columbus, Ohio", 16 Sep 1859, Vol. III, p. 423.'Whether slavery shall go into Nebraska, or other new territories, is not a matter of exclusive concern to the people who may go there. The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these territories. We want them for the homes of free white people.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Speech at Peoria, Illinois", 16 Oct 1854, Vol. II, p. 267.
And here's a freebie, his attitude towards Mexicans:
Glad I could help.'I understand that the people of Mexico are most decidedly a race of mongrels. I understand that there is not more than one person there out of eight who is pure white, and I suppose from the Judge's previous declaration that when we get Mexico or any considerable portion of it, that he will be in favour of these mongrels settling the question, which would bring him somewhat into collision with his horror of an inferior race.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Fifth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas, at Galesburg, Illinois", 7 Oct 1858, Vol. III, p. 235.
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.'
Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois", 8 Sep 1858, Vol. III, pp. 145-146.
More Lincoln:
"My friends, I have detained you about as long as I desired to do, and I have only to say, let us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man; this race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they must be placed in an inferior position; discarding our standard that we have left us. Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal."
A. Lincoln, 7/10/58
None of the quotes you provide sustain an idea that Lincoln thought blacks were inherently inferior to whites. In this same time frame -- at another of the Douglas debates -- Lincoln indicated he didn't know if blacks were inferior or not.
Lincoln is not on the record saying blacks were racially inferior to blacks and you cannot put him there.
He -is- on the record as saying that blacks were just as good as soldiers as any and that there was no man in the country whose opinion he valued more than that of a black man -- Frederick Douglass.
In the famous Greeley letter that the neo-reb fringe loves to quote partially, Lincoln said that he was willing to adopt new views as soon as they were shown to be true views, and, while it is certainly true that he said in 1858 he was not willing to make voters or jurors of blacks -- in 1865, he was.
Walt
Nonsense. There wasn't any such thing to begin with. Prior to amendment 17, senators were elected by the vote of the state legislature. There was no "mini-electoral college" or popular vote.
There was definitely a popular vote for senator that year. It may have only been a straw poll or an extra item on a ballot of other issues. Lincoln definitely polled more votes than Douglas. I'll find that.
One interpretation arising from the debates is that Lincoln tricked Douglas into saying that the people in a territory could vote down slavery -- the Freeport Doctrine.
According to this line of thinking, Lincoln made it impossible for Douglas to carry southern states by so doing. I don't think Lincoln was that manipulative, do you?
Walt
Yeah. All over the radar. And that is why Douglas won the debates.
Lincoln "won" the debates. He got more of the popular vote.
"In those days, U.S. senators were elected by their state legislatures, not by a direct popular vote. Thus, the debates were designed to appeal to voters who would elect members of the state legislature, who would in turn elect the U.S. senator from Illinois. When the votes were counted, although Lincoln won a slight majority of the popular vote, legislative districts had been drawn (gerrymandered) so as to give the Democratic Party an electoral majority in several districts. As a result, the Democrats retained their majority in the legislature and elected Douglas over Lincoln by fifty-four votes to forty-six. Nevertheless, the campaign had given Lincoln a national reputation, and made him a leader of the Republican Party."
See this website:
http://www.americanpresident.org/kotrain/courses/AL/AL_Life_Before_The_Presidency.htm
From the same site:
"It was on this last issue of racial equality that Lincoln had the most difficulty in answering Douglas. Lincoln could not easily declare that slavery was immoral and that African Americans were endowed with God-given rights as presented in the Declaration of Independence without leaving himself vulnerable to Douglas's race-baiting attacks. Either African Americans were equal to white Americans, Douglas proclaimed, or they were not.
Lincoln answered by trying to contend that there were physical and social differences between the races that would "probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality." On the other hand, true to his "free labor" Republican ideology, Lincoln insisted that "there is no reason in the world why the Negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence—the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Nevertheless, he saw limits to what this meant. He was opposed to granting to blacks the privileges of citizenship, which meant the right to vote, sit on juries, hold public office, or intermarry with whites. Like Douglas on the issue of popular sovereignty, Lincoln tried to have it both ways on the issue of racial equality. Blacks were equal, he said, to all men in their freedom to earn the just rewards for the work they did rather than to have those earnings confiscated by tyrants, kings, and slavemasters."
But Lincoln, as is well known, did later support full rights for blacks.
Walt
You're glad you didn't have to quote anything from the last 5-6 years of Lincoln's life.
"Recognizing me, even before I reached him, he exclaimed, so that all around could hear him, "Here comes my friend Douglass." Taking me by the hand, he said, "I am glad to see you. I saw you in the crowd to-day, listening to my inaugural address; how did you like it?" I said, "Mr. Lincoln, I must not detain you with my poor opinion, when there are thousands waiting to shake hands with you." "No, no," he said, "you must stop a little, Douglass; there is no man in the country whose opinion I value more than yours. I want to know what you think of it?" I replied, "Mr. Lincoln, that was a sacred effort." "I am glad you liked it!" he said; and I passed on, feeling that any man, however distinguished, might well regard himself honored by such expressions, from such a man."
3/4/65
"it is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers."
4/11/65
He said in March, 1865 that the best relationship of whites and blacks was that of master and slave. (1)
If he did, he would not be alone.
Lee did write such a letter.
But that letter does help dispel some of the undeserved myth that surrounds the man.
Walt
Perhaps you have indeed. You have posted a lot of stuff to me, almost always irrelevant, as in the present case, to the question to which you are ostensibly responding.
You don't see the word "inferior"? Splitting hairs, Walt. And saying that blacks are "as good soldiers as any" is hardly a statement of general equality. Pretty lame response.
Nonsense - He IS and he DID:
'But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. ... The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours.'Please define the terms "inferior" and "equal" in your fantasy universe.
None of the quotes you provided can support an interpretation that Lincoln thought blacks intellectually or morally inferior. In fact, he said plainly during the debates that he didn't know that very thing.
And in the July 10 speech he said that all men were created equal.
Lincoln danced around this quite a bit in this time frame. He -was- a lawyer after all. But you can't put him on the record as saying blacks were inferior. And later he said:
"....peace does not appear as distant as it did. I hope it will come soon, and come to stay; and so come as to worth the keeping in all future time. It will have then been proved that, among free men, there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and that they who take such appeal are sure to lose their case, and pay the cost. And then, there will be some black men, who can remember that, with silent tongue, and clenched teeth, and steady eye, and well-poised bayonet they have helped mankind on to this great consumation; while, I fear, there will be some white ones, unable to forget that, with malignant heart, and deceitful speech, have strove to hinder it."
You'd rather be identified with the former than the latter, wouldn't you? I sure would.
Walt
Nonsense - He IS and he DID:
'But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. ...
He's talking about social equality, not moral or intellectual equality.
Your premise is laughably false, and I feel certain you know that.
Walt
No, Lincoln does not qualify the inequality as being social, moral, or intellectual. It's racial. What would lead on to that conclusion? Other writings in that statement, commonly known as words. They're clues to interpretation if you didn't know. What Lincoln did state is that 'you [blacks] are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race", and 'not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours.'
Your conclusion is laughably false, and I feel certain you know that.
What is it about Lincoln's quotes that offend you?
"Did God will it [the war] because he willed the end of slavery and willed all of this death and destruction to punish people for tolerating the evil of slavery? But civilization had already endured for 12 thousand or more years and slavery with it. Why would God suddenly decide that it had to end then, violently, in America, when it was ending peacefully elsewhere. And why was it Americans who had to suffer the punishment for a 12,000 year old evil?"
You're smoking crack!
What a hoot!
There is not a nickel's worth of difference about the way that Washington, Madison, Jackson and Lincoln viewed the nature of the Union.
Howzat?
What a hoot!
Walt
There's nothing about these quotes made by Lincoln that offend me, it's the insane attempts of Lincolnites to deny what Lincoln so plainly stated. Good grief, he was a man of HIS times, not of ours, and so what if some of his statements would be considered derogatory today? All the Lincolnites have to do is admit that Lincoln was a man of the times, just as others were, and forget this revolting revisionism.
Maybe because the slave power fought tooth and nail to preserve it when the rising tide of world opinion was everywhere against it.
At a time when the Czar was freeing the slaves, the Richmond Examiner was saying:
"It is all an hallucination to suppose that we are ever going to get rid of slavery, or that it will ever be desirable to do so. It is a thing that we cannot do without;that is righteous, profitable, and permanent, and that belongs to Southern society as inherently, intrinsically, and durably as the white race itself. Southern men should act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the negro is here, and here forever—is our property, and ours forever—is never to be emancipated—is to be kept hard at work and in rigid subjection all his days."
Walt
Crap. The Czar freed the smurfs, er, serfs.
Walt
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