Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter

NASA photos | 2-3-03 | BoneMccoy

[Thud]

Very nice work.

[XBob]

I have no fancy graphics at all, just the Photo Editor, which comes with Windows or Microsoft Office (one or the other), free.

If you haven't used it, it is a good little program, and should be on your Windows or Office CD.

Did we crash the FR? I wonder.

[XBob]

God did it, made that door hang out a 3000 degrees and 1700mph, and stay there.

[NASA Dude]

In order to swave weight, most of the original sensors have been removed. This saved several hundred pounds. Hence, no data available.

[Cold Heat]

Popped back online for a quickie! LOL

Been thinking about the glove theory.

I have a hypothesis.......Could it be that the portion of the glove adjacent to the Gear Well is burned out due to the tile strike, and the rest is still intact but collapsing a few inches like a domino line.

The Gear door theory could still be correct. The two latches are right there.

Tile damage, tile loss, door damage and subsequent hole burned into surface in front of door and involving the door as it spread back. Then the undermining of the glove supports in front of it causing RCC to come off. Tire failure, pyros go off, gear drops, craft yaws out of control.

Back later!

[Cold Heat]

Popped back online for a quickie! LOL

Been thinking about the glove theory.

I have a hypothesis.......Could it be that the portion of the glove adjacent to the Gear Well is burned out due to the tile strike, and the rest is still intact but collapsing a few inches like a domino line.

The Gear door theory could still be correct. The two latches are right there.

Tile damage, tile loss, door damage and subsequent hole burned into surface in front of door and involving the door as it spread back. Then the undermining of the glove supports in front of it causing RCC to come off. Tire failure, pyros go off, gear drops, craft yaws out of control.

Back later!

[analyst2]

>> I don't understand how the RCC
forward of the hypothetical debris impact could have been compromised.

NASA has suggested two theories: ice from waste-water
outlet (immediately above wing glove), or space debris.

Also turbulance generated cracking...
I suggest we look again at the repairs that were made that
delayed the initial shuttle launch. Perhaps someone can
post a detail of the repairs, all I have is the newsclipping.

[analyst2]

>> I don't understand how the RCC forward of the
>> hypothetical debris impact could have been compromised.

NASA has suggested two theories: ice from waste-water
outlet (immediately above wing glove), or space debris.

Also turbulance generated cracking...
I suggest we look again at the repairs that were made that
delayed the initial shuttle launch. Perhaps someone can
post a detail of the repairs, all I have is the newsclipping.

[analyst2]

>> I don't understand how the RCC forward of the
>> hypothetical debris impact could have been compromised.

NASA has suggested two theories: ice from waste-water
outlet (immediately above wing glove), or space debris.

Also turbulance generated cracking...
I suggest we look again at the repairs that were made that
delayed the initial shuttle launch. Perhaps someone can
post a detail of the repairs, all I have is the newsclipping.

[bonesmccoy]

back later?

Heck you just laid out the entire chain reaction!

LOL

That's FR...isn't it?

You get to the bottom of the issues and then see what happens.

XBob's diagram is pretty compelling.

I was attempting to alter the TPS diagram and overlay it on the USAF IR image. However, I don't seem to have the right kind of software to do the image work (BUMMER).

[freepersup]

Been away from the thread for awhile- I see that someone else is wondering about the tires as a significant factor in the shuttle's demise... (as did yours truly).

WASHINGTON -- A NASA engineer weighed the possibility of a "catastrophic" failure resulting from extreme heat on the shuttle Columbia's tires despite assurances days earlier that possible damage to insulating tiles near the landing gear wouldn't imperil the crew.

In internal e-mails released by NASA on Wednesday, one safety engineer, Robert H. Daugherty, warned that extreme temperatures during a fiery descent could cause the wheel to fail and the tire to burst inside Columbia's wheel well.

"It seems to me that with that much carnage in the wheel well, something could get screwed up enough to prevent deployment and then you are in a world of hurt," Daugherty wrote to officials at Johnson Space Center. He added that such an internal blast "would almost certainly blow the door off the hinges or at least send it out into the slip stream -- catastrophic."

[freepersup]

Been away from the thread for awhile- I see that someone else is wondering about the tires as a significant factor in the shuttle's demise... (as did yours truly).

WASHINGTON -- A NASA engineer weighed the possibility of a "catastrophic" failure resulting from extreme heat on the shuttle Columbia's tires despite assurances days earlier that possible damage to insulating tiles near the landing gear wouldn't imperil the crew.

In internal e-mails released by NASA on Wednesday, one safety engineer, Robert H. Daugherty, warned that extreme temperatures during a fiery descent could cause the wheel to fail and the tire to burst inside Columbia's wheel well.

"It seems to me that with that much carnage in the wheel well, something could get screwed up enough to prevent deployment and then you are in a world of hurt," Daugherty wrote to officials at Johnson Space Center. He added that such an internal blast "would almost certainly blow the door off the hinges or at least send it out into the slip stream -- catastrophic."

[freepersup]

Been away from the thread for awhile- I see that someone else is wondering about the tires as a significant factor in the shuttle's demise... (as did yours truly).

WASHINGTON -- A NASA engineer weighed the possibility of a "catastrophic" failure resulting from extreme heat on the shuttle Columbia's tires despite assurances days earlier that possible damage to insulating tiles near the landing gear wouldn't imperil the crew.

In internal e-mails released by NASA on Wednesday, one safety engineer, Robert H. Daugherty, warned that extreme temperatures during a fiery descent could cause the wheel to fail and the tire to burst inside Columbia's wheel well.

"It seems to me that with that much carnage in the wheel well, something could get screwed up enough to prevent deployment and then you are in a world of hurt," Daugherty wrote to officials at Johnson Space Center. He added that such an internal blast "would almost certainly blow the door off the hinges or at least send it out into the slip stream -- catastrophic."

[XBob]

I don't know about the remainder of your theory, but it got me to thinking, and I went back and examined the time line and the tile pattern again.

1. We really need a time on the USAF picture over albequerque, because by that time it was pretty much over, and then they began their left turn.

2. The first sensor to show any indication, was on the inside of the wheel well, under the body. Now remember, basically, the inside of the wheel well is just under the side wall of the main body structure, and that is what the landing gear attaches to. Not a big rise, but the first rise. The time was 6:52:20.

3. The tank insulation strike I had estimated on the inside of the wheel well, about 2 feet down. So, using my estimate of the strike, rather than the other one with the tile drawing and the arrow, that puts the strike on the inside zipper, about 4-6 feet in front of this first sensor/rise, and in line longitudinally. But, I didn't argue with others positioning on the outside of the well, as my eyes aren't that good on depth perception interpretation. However, if my estimate was right, on the longitude, it hit on a zipper.

4. So I went back and looked at the tile pattern again, and guess what, I see, effectively a smaller, less contiguous zipper running quite far forward, immmediately under the edge of the body on the wing.

5. Now suppose, the foam took one bounce, first on this smaller zipper (which is would unzip the web, perhaps zipping up or perhaps zipping down, or perhaps both) This would effectively torch the connection points of the web, in front of the LG box to the wing/body.

[Budge]

Hey, I work too, just odd hours. :)

[Budge]

Thank you sir, but I only went on hunches and observations. The others, xBob, Bones, John, Wire and several others did the real work.

[XBob]

1494 - thanks for the wing under construction photo, BM. I see no serious longitudinal reinforcement in the forward section, except where it bolts to the body. I guess they figured low stress there.

It appears to me that if you Shoot a high pressure blast of air on that blunt leading edge on the very front, and the latitudinal supports will just fold back against the body, as I theorized, if I am interpreting the photo correctly.

[TomServo]

Thought you might be interested in reading this. You might've seen it already.

Trio Took Shuttle Photo With Equipment
By LESLIE HOFFMAN
ASSOCIATED PRESS

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) -

The shadowy, closely-analyzed photo of space shuttle Columbia's underside was not snapped with cutting-edge military equipment, but by three researchers playing around with an old computer and an ordinary telescope in their free time, officials said Wednesday.

The grainy photo was made Feb. 1 at the Starfire Optical Range at Kirtland Air Force Base and released Friday by NASA. It shows what appears to be a suspicious bulge on the shuttle's wing shortly before it broke apart.

But contrary to reports last week, the photo was not snapped by one of Starfire's extraordinarily powerful telescopes, which are designed to spy on enemy satellites and detect incoming missiles.

Instead, it was taken by Starfire Optical Range engineers who, in their free time, had rigged up a device using a commercially available 3 1/2-inch telescope and an 11-year-old Macintosh computer, the researchers said. The telescope was surplus laboratory equipment, kept in a cabinet at the Starfire range.

"We were not asked by NASA to do this," said Robert Fugate, the optical range's technical director. "There was no official project or tasking to do this. The people who work here are geeks. This was an opportunity to look at a rapidly moving object and try to take a picture of it. That's really all it was."

The researchers, Maj. Robert Johnson, Rick Cleis, and Roger Petty, said Wednesday they wanted to set the record straight about the image, since its grainy quality had raised questions among those familiar with the Starfire range's capabilities. They said they used none of the technology the Starfire range is famous for.

"This is the blurriest picture we've ever taken of anything, and this is the one that makes the front page of the newspapers," Johnson said.

The men said they realized their photo's significance about 10 minutes after it was taken, after a family member called them to say the shuttle had been lost.

The shuttle's breakup also was captured on video by two Dutch air force pilots training near Fort Hood in central Texas. The Apache helicopter was about 100 feet from the ground when the aircraft's video camera filmed the shuttle.

"This camera is more powerful than others" that have captured footage of the shuttle, said Maj. Matt Garner, a public affairs officer at Fort Hood. "It has the exact time, down to the second, along with the direction the camera is looking."

ABC aired the black and white video on its evening news show Wednesday night. It shows the shuttle broken into several pieces streaking across the sky.

The video has been turned over to NASA and will be analyzed, said Johnson Space Center spokesman Alan Buis.

[leadpenny]

Reps. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) and Bart Gordon (D-TN) are on C-SPAN's Washington Journal right now and for the next 45 minutes. They are the Space & Aeronautics Subcommitte Chairman and Ranking Member.

[XBob]

I have been working on the timeline and have pretty much come to the conclusion that the glove/web disappeared in the vicinity of the 4 corners, intersection of Utah, Ariz, NM, and Colorado.

08:56:20 a.m. (LOS-03:12)
Left upper and lower wing skin temperature sensors go off line.

This is about 150 miles west of Albequerque, where the USAF photo was taken.

I think this is on the Pueblo Indian Reservation, and is one of the most miserable, deserted, desert sections of any place in the whole world.

I wonder if there was anyone out there to see it?