From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[Charles Martel]

That's not the wing, it's the *inside* of the cargo bay's wall. Those are not cracks, they are simply panel joints.

[DoughtyOne]

To: DoughtyOne

"I do believe you should be embarassed, as well as ashamed to claim that everyone should keep their mouths shut in the face of misguided comments from Dettemore or anyone else at NASA."

Of course not, we should accept the misguided comments by you and TBLSHOW instead. You're so much more infinately qualified in the dynamics of space flight and the space shuttle then the astronauts and NASA.

You really are amusing.

456 posted on 02/04/2003 12:43 PM PST by CWOJackson
 

Okay.  Once again, you'll have to address your differences with TLBSHOW with him.

Now please provide even one comment that I have made related to the Columbia disaster that you disagree with.

In the abense of that I'll simply have to recognize along with others that you can't.

[Howlin]

And just so you won't come back with some other excuse, these are the EXACT WORDS from Todd's post of the picture this morning:

One of Israel's leading newspapers published a photograph it claims as evidence of two cracks in the left wing of the Columbia more than a week before the space shuttle broke up on re-entry, killing all seven crew members

Misleading? Incorrect?

Here is the thread debunking this picture, which has been up since last night for all to see:

Debunking the Israeli tabloid "shuttle wing" photo

And here is the orignal thread:

Did NASA know there was a problem? PIC and Excerpts from an Israeli Article

which has the quote

The left wing of the shuttle picture taken from the window of the shuttle

along with

Did Nasa know about this and therefore kept their silence, not telling the astronauts? -The photo was revealed on Channel 1 of Israel. This pic was taken during an interview the Channel had with the Israeli astronaut.

Misleading? Incorrect?

How about FRAUD, continued by your buddy Todd.

[TLBSHOW]

Debris hunt widens to Calif. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/57133p-53503c.html

[TLBSHOW]

your the only fraud here with all you're bs

Maybe we erred on tiles, NASA says

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/57131p-53500c.html

[Republic of Texas]

That makes for a great Bruce Willis movie, but it doesn't translate to real life.

[Howlin]

Ignoring the truth in front of your eyes won't make anybody on here think you're telling the truth. You have been repeatedly shown the facts about that photo but you refuse to take your claim back.

The longer you refuse to admit you use that photo which had already been discredited to smear NASA, the more peole will see what a fraud you are.

Correct the record of be forever labeled a fraud (which, by the way, will be fine by me and will come as no great surprise to anybody on this forum).

[TLBSHOW]

Look Fred who was right again about this last Saturday? Front page at the NOT LIBERAL PAPER.......

DEAF EARS

February 4, 2003--
A former NASA safety official wrote President Bush last August to warn of "another catastrophic space shuttle accident," but the president never saw the letter and the warning was rejected, the White House revealed yesterday. The whistleblower cited an inspection two years earlier that found 3,500 wiring defects in Columbia.

http://www.nypost.com/

[CWOJackson]

"In the abense of that I'll simply have to recognize along with others that you can't."

Naturally, you and Fred and TBLSHOW (you know, the person you liken to the family member of a mugging victim) can all thump your chests and tell each other how I couldn't. As I've pointed out numerous times, your concept of logic and reality are far apart. You can circular talk all you want, it doesn't change anything. But it does provide a great humour break.

[Rebelbase]

FYI, You can't win wrestling a pig in the mud........

[Howlin]

I know, but I HATE lies spoken in the name of FR.

BTW, are you and your kids staying out of trouble, not antagonizing any poor peaceniks? :-)

[CWOJackson]

And it's fun watching them spin up. At least until they go strange and start talking about Zogby.

[justshe]

#465---TLB says: your the only fraud here with all you're bs Maybe we erred on tiles, NASA says

---

In other words, you cannot respond to ALL of the evidence re: the picture you have been defending, so you are now diverting the discussion to TILES??? Who is the fraud? What a joke.

How about sticking with the TOPIC?

This post deserves to be repeated.

---

And just so you won't come back with some other excuse, these are the EXACT WORDS from Todd's post of the picture this morning:

One of Israel's leading newspapers published a photograph it claims as evidence of two cracks in the left wing of the Columbia more than a week before the space shuttle broke up on re-entry, killing all seven crew members

Misleading? Incorrect?

Here is the thread debunking this picture, which has been up since last night for all to see:

Debunking the Israeli tabloid "shuttle wing" photo

And here is the orignal thread:

Did NASA know there was a problem? PIC and Excerpts from an Israeli Article

which has the quote

The left wing of the shuttle picture taken from the window of the shuttle

along with

Did Nasa know about this and therefore kept their silence, not telling the astronauts? -The photo was revealed on Channel 1 of Israel. This pic was taken during an interview the Channel had with the Israeli astronaut.

Misleading? Incorrect?

How about FRAUD, continued by your buddy Todd.

[TLBSHOW]

here is what nasa says so far......reported about an hour ago

A spokesman at NASA headquarters in Washington, D.C., Al Feinberg, told WorldNetDaily that the space agency could not comment until it has an original of the photograph, but said, "It sure looks goofy to me."

Pat Ryan, a NASA spokesman at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, told WND yesterday he had heard about the picture, but "nobody is going to say anything one way or another at this point."

"Photos like that need to be given to the people doing the investigation so they can consider whether it's an important part of what we need to know," Ryan said.

After receiving a link to the photograph from WND, Kylie S. Moritz of the Johnson public-affairs office promised to get a response from a NASA engineer, but remarked, "It certainly looks suspect to me."

Sam Segal, who is in charge of Maariv's U.S. office, in New York, told WND that the photo actually belongs to NASA, since it was taken from NASA video footage.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30847

again me posting what is not as yet false does not show me to be a fraud. Then you best call everyone that printed it a fraud.


The photo gained worldwide attention through further publication by the Italian daily Corriere Della Sera, coverage by Agence France-Presse and the Australian Broadcasting Corp., and a link on the Drudge Report.

[CWOJackson]

While I would dearly love to wait for the next long winded circular argument from you, and the rest of the gang who can't shoot straight, the wife and I are heading out.

But since it inflamed you so much the first time I'll repost if for you now:

Today we pay tribute to seven brave people. These seven people were combat pilots, aeronautical engineers, scientists…astronauts. Many of them had been with the space program for years, for others this was the culmination of their dreams.

Within hours of this terrible disaster there were some on FR claiming that the disaster was the result of NASA’s incompetence, that the disaster was avoidable and that the cover up had already began. They have offered up memo’s, doctored photos and wild rumor as evidence. In order to be true than we must also assume that the seven astronauts who died were fools or somehow duplicitous in their own deaths. Are we expected to believe that the knowledge of a few rumor mongers on the internet is greater then that of those who flew on Challenger?

Are we to believe that these seven astronauts were not aware of the foam problems on the shuttle program or the effects of budget cuts on the program? Are we to believe that they were foolish enough to fly a platform into space that was doomed from the beginning as some on FR claim?

If we accept their speculation then we must also assume that their fellow astronauts, walking the woodlands of east Texas looking for their remains, will not seek to discover the real cause of their deaths, but will work to cover up for NASA. Do you really believe this?

Is this what we’ve come to on FR? This doesn’t just smear NASA, it smears the seven brave people we honor today.

Yep, that sure does embarrass me.

[TLBSHOW]

Fingers Point to NASA; NASA Points Fingers

from conservative Carl Limbacher

As with any other fiasco in America, the Columbia disaster has sparked a big round of finger pointing. NASA is getting the brunt of the blame, but it is fighting back.

The agency's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel warned in its annual report last year: "NASA's operations evidence high levels of safety consciousness and sincere efforts to place safety foremost. Nevertheless, the panel's safety concerns have never been greater."

"I have never been as worried for shuttle safety as I am right now," the report's author, Richard Bloomberg, told a congressional oversight committee in April. "All of my instincts suggest that the current approach is planting the seeds of future danger."

Don Nelson, an engineer who retired in 1999 from Johnson Space Center in Houston, wrote to President Bush last August urging that the shuttle be grounded or fly with a minimal crew of four until its escape system could be improved or the spacecraft could be altered to fly unmanned.

"It's my duty to inform you that our space shuttle astronauts are in eminent danger," Nelson wrote.

'We Was Gonna Have Something Like This'


He told NBC on Sunday: "I had been saying for a long time — and there’s others at NASA and aerospace that’d been saying for a long time — that we was gonna have something like this. ...

"There were at least six or seven major safety issues that indicated that this vehicle was getting ready to have a catastrophic condition for one reason or another, and we’ve been trying to get a crew escape module on that vehicle for a long time."

Nelson told NBC that "the money is there. It’s not being done because of the cultural hang-up of taking the pilot out of the shuttle system and not having a pilot with hands-on capability in control of the space shuttle."

He said NASA ignored his concerns, claims the agency disputes. "I got two written reprimands to start off with, and 'one more, and you’re out on your ear.' So that’s when I decided to retire and go out and do the campaign outside as a private citizen. You’re one voice going against an established, recognized entity like NASA that has a fantastic record."

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/2/3/145913

[demlosers]

That's not the wing, it's the *inside* of the cargo bay's wall. Those are not cracks, they are simply panel joints.

Yes I know, I don't think I ever said they were from the wing. I just posted the silly picture and asked a question. Many FReepers seemed to jump to fast conclusions.

[Howlin]

Here is what YOU said when you posted that picture:

One of Israel's leading newspapers published a photograph it claims as evidence of two cracks in the left wing of the Columbia more than a week before the space shuttle broke up on re-entry, killing all seven crew members

You were shown the video which that still came from.

You were told repeatedly that it was doctored and NOT two cracks in the wing but you still kept it up.

again me posting what is not as yet false does not show me to be a fraud.

When you have been shown repeatedly by better minds on FR than yours, and when you have SEEN the video it was taken from, and you continue to say it hasn't been proven a fake, then yes, I can call you a fraud.

Then you best call everyone that printed it a fraud.

If you had read ANY of the threads about that picture that were linked to you, you would have seen we did just that. Repeatedly. On every thread.

You are virtually the only person on FR who will not admit it was fraudulently presented. To keep this up just proves how unstable you are.

[TLBSHOW]

My question is

Did you see Brian Ross's report on Good
Morning America this morning about the AF having
satellite pics of the shuttle? According to Ross, NASA
didn't ask to see the pics til after the accident, and
has imposed a gag order (his words) on any discussion of
them.

Did you and can you fill me in on it? I am researching this information.

[TLBSHOW]

bring that up with world net daily as that story is here
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30847

wasn't he at cpac?

and you can now vote in a poll at world net here

What do you make of the photo purporting to show cracks on Columbia while in space?
It's definitely the 'smoking gun' that caused disaster
If it's real, NASA should have aborted re-entry plans
I'm skeptical, but NASA should tell us what we're seeing
We'll never know, NASA in full cover-up mode
Photo looks phony, but it probably represents what likely happened
If astronaut saw that, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know you're in trouble
I don't know what to make of the photo
Total hoax
Other

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/