From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[Karsus]

I am glad that you and those currently in charge at NASA were not in charge during g. If you were we would have 3 more dead astronauts because they would just have been written off as "NOTHING COULD HAVE BEEN DONE".

[freepersup]

What bothers me about NASA in all of this is the admonition that there wasn't anything they could have done about damaged tile AFTER lift off.

First, that is a defeatist attitude.

Second, that is not the American way.

Third, why not ?

The shuttle has been operational since what, 1981 ?

An escape pod or a vehicle incorporated either onboard or launched, in order to rescue a crew from a stranded ship is conceiveable.

Why isn't there at least two tethered space suits available on board each shuttle for external repairs ?

Why isn't there a repair procedure for damaged or missing tiles, when their loss could be catastrophic ?

Granted, hindsight is 20-20. There are highly qualified, highly paid people employed at NASA, where their primary job function is to solve problems such as what took place during this mission.

[DoughtyOne]

If you would like to discuss a point of contention, raise an issue and I'll address it. We could just as easily have said there was nothing we could do for Apollo 13 either. We didn't take that stance then. We shouldn't buy off on it today without asking questions and getting answers.

[xzins]

I understand that every system on the Shuttle has a backup....except for the entire system.

The ISS and/or a backup, rescue shuttle would provide a backup.

[Wolfstar]

During Columbia's launching Jan. 16, long-range tracking cameras showed a relatively large piece of foam debris falling away from the shuttle's external tank and striking the underside of the orbiter's left wing.

I'm sorry to disagree with you, Jael, but I watched each of the briefings they had over the weekend, in their entirety. The NASA spokesmen said, point blank, that they did not know of the debris hitting the orbiter until the day after launch when they did their routine frame-by-frame check of the films. That is precisely what the men said and, if necessary, I will look for a transcript of the briefings to date (if they exist anywhere on the web) to prove it to you.

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

I hope that the monies NASA is getting is spent on newer and better space craft (look at our military's stealth technology, we will endeavor into the Jetson's era!)An emergency space station,loaded with supplies and equipment for repairs would be wise if feasible at this time.

[Karsus]

NO. THEY DID NOTHING. That is different that "THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO" do you know why it is different? Because NASA DID NOT EVEN TRY.

[yonif]

We could just as easily have said there was nothing we could do for Apollo 13 either. We didn't take that stance then. We shouldn't buy off on it today without asking questions and getting answers.

--Thank You.

[Wolfstar]

To my best understanding, NASA is looking at the possibility that the impact may have damaged the wheel-well bay door seals in some way. So your layman's understanding may prove to be correct in the long run.

[demlosers]

Dan Goldin should be in prison.

Golden's motto: "cheaper, faster, better" policy, which also brought about the loss of 2 Mar's spacecrafts.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Why is not every mission equipped with the ability to dock with the ISS and why is not every mission required to have an additional shuttle in backup role in case of the need to rescue a crew. That would limit the crews to about 4 persons"

But then there would be no room for teachers, congressmen, and token representatives of foreign allies!

[Plutarch]

THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO...

Stuff and Nonsense. If NASA doesn't have a contingency plan to bring astronauts down from a disabled shuttle, then they ought to get out of the space business.

[spunkets]

"Please tell me how NASA could assume a 5 to 10' brick hitting the shuttle moving in excess of 1000 mph would do no damage. I'd like to hear the parse on that."

It's the relative velocity of the obiter vs debris that's important, not the rel.vel of those things vs earth. To know how fast the debris was going relative to the obiter, neglecting wind, you have to know the time, or distance the stuff fell(decelerated), both are known, and the acceleration of the rocket. I saw an est that it was about 80-150mph, but I didn't check it.

The debris doesn't have the hardness and density of brick though. It's either foam, or a thick frost layer.

[Wolfstar]

You are most welcome, Howlin. I despise the phony pics that turn up on the web after incidents like this. So when it's possible to post authoritative pics from the source (NASA in this case), I think it can be helpful to those of us who want to understand the truth (as opposed to tin-foil-hat stuff).

[xzins]

A smaller payload would allow for more people, I suppose. But political passengers should be a far lower priority than research passengers.

[Howlin]

(as opposed to tin-foil-hat stuff).

Don't have to look "far" to see that, do we? :-)

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

Very well said. Hooorah!

[demlosers]

Maybe this lead to the loss of Columbia?

Photo Of CRACKS In Columbia In Israeli Paper

[LenS]

Where's the proper contingency planning?

Why doesn't every mission have the equipment for a space walk? Does a long enough tether take up that much room? Or a suit? With some proper planning, they'd have the equipment to at least physically inspect possible problems.

Then they'd have had time to either crash prepare another shuttle. Or shoot up another rocket (heck, the Russians had one on the pad as all this happened) with say more fuel -- so it could get to the ISS -- or more supplies to buy more orbit time -- and giving more time to get another shuttle ready -- or even sending up a Soyuz capsule for them to cram into and return to Earth.

Yes, there was nothing they could do after it reentered orbit. But before?

NASA's in full bureaucratic cover your butt mode. They'll trot out the families and other astronauts to distract. And those people will do it because they truly want to keep man in space and they believe that the Space Shuttle is their only option. So they'll give NASA the cover it needs.

If Apollo 13 had happened today, there'd be three dead astronauts as NASA said "There was nothing we could do!"

[spunkets]

"obiter"

Sorry, obiters are orbiters that were painted by a crew w/o coffee.