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From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing
NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

Posted on 02/03/2003 4:43:52 PM PST by Wolfstar

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:02:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: columbia; photos; shuttle
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To: El Gato
Now you've done it. MOOSE, indeed.
121 posted on 02/03/2003 5:57:55 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: freepersup
There are too many different types and shapes of tiles to facilitate a repair. They'd have to bring so much 'repair tile' that there would be no room for anything else.

Also, losing a tile here and there has not proven to be a problem in the past.

122 posted on 02/03/2003 5:58:23 PM PST by chiller (could be wrong, but doubt it)
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To: Wolfstar

What's it look like beneath the tile?

123 posted on 02/03/2003 5:58:30 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (A Shrubbery!)
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To: Howlin
If you've got it I'd love to fire off some comments. You bet your...
124 posted on 02/03/2003 5:58:33 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: chiller

No problem.. Cut it to fit.

You mean we can't do that?

125 posted on 02/03/2003 5:59:21 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (A Shrubbery!)
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
No. They did a lousy job on checking to see if there was damage. All it would have taken is a call to some of the ground/air based telescopes the military uses to track ICBM tests.

126 posted on 02/03/2003 5:59:48 PM PST by Karsus (TrueFacts=GOOD, GoodFacts=BAD))
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To: DoughtyOne
How could you know the size and how fast the object is going? I don't think experts are sure and most of us are not trained to view this in an investigative manner. I am shocked at how many people are acting like NASA should have consulted them and put the video out for their assessment and decision.
127 posted on 02/03/2003 6:00:32 PM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday! (I suppose in an "Ask Jeeves" world, everyone is a rocket scientist.)
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To: DoughtyOne
I don't have it.

Here is the rest of what they said; you might as well have it all so you can give him the facts, since he doesn't know what he's talking about:

To: Howlin

20X16X6, weight 2.67 pounds.

Size determined in two ways: looked at film and estimated.

Secondly, utlilized information from 112 -- they had the film the flight crew took as the ET separated from the orbiter.

288 posted on 02/03/2003 5:16 PM EST by Howlin

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128 posted on 02/03/2003 6:00:55 PM PST by Howlin
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To: El Gato
sometimes, smoke jumpers are saved by foil tents... the sad part is that bureaucracy thwarts the simple, mundane and the "odd-ball"

the lockheed skunkworks would be the model in a chuck yaeger world... but even back then, we lost a lot of good test pilots.

129 posted on 02/03/2003 6:01:07 PM PST by glock rocks (i only engineer zeroes and ones.)
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To: Wolfstar
Far from wallowing in the usual recriminations, we should analyze what went wrong, fix it, and keep moving forward into space.

Accidents happen. More accidents will happen in the future. I am dismayed more by the fact that we've had only two fatal accidents in the last 20 years. We should have had many, many more manned space flights.

I'll gladly volunteer to go up in the next shuttle.

130 posted on 02/03/2003 6:01:54 PM PST by altair (who's jealous that his boss got to go up into orbit and he didn't)
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To: Howlin
You're the one saying what NASA says is a lie, not me.

I'm not saying anything. Its just that everyone seems to think that if there was a serious problem there was nothing that could have been done about it. That's baloney. I think they must have underestimated the problem. There are those who claim that they knew the problem was significant, yet they didn't try to mount a rescue because they couldn't do it.

If there was a problem, they would have found a way to fix it. That is the way America operates. But if in fact they knew it was serious and didn't try to mount a rescue, that is unforgivable. Obviously they didn't think it was a big deal. They were wrong.

I can guarantee that the next time they send up a shuttle they will have another one ready on the launch pad just in case something goes wrong. They won't assume things are ok next time. They will launch a rescue immediately.

In fact I would be willing to bet that the next two shuttle missions will be staged for a practice rescue. They are not going to send up any more non-military missions until they know they can get a crew out of a damaged ship.

131 posted on 02/03/2003 6:03:33 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: DoughtyOne
The angle of the hit and the fact that the material absorbed the energy of the impact, lead me and NASA to believe that the damage, if any, was most likely superficial and minor.

I see it as a peanut glancing off a anvil.

I think this is a red herring and the cause is likely not discovered yet. I think space junk is more likely. A marble sized nut at 20,000 MPH would certainly cause the requisite damage and would not even be felt by the crew.

132 posted on 02/03/2003 6:04:12 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: DoughtyOne
It is a flat-out hoax, no matter what you choose to believe. Just look at the bleed-over of the color blue from earth in the background to the leading edge of the object in the foreground in the upper right corner of the photo. A sure sign of bad electronic photo editing.
133 posted on 02/03/2003 6:04:21 PM PST by Wolfstar
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To: Wolfstar
I would like to learn more about any contingency plans. Surely NASA had contingency plans. Leaving dead people in orbit or taking a chance of re-entering with a disabled shuttle does not seem like a viable option for NASA in consideration of adverse publicity and Challenger.

I think error tolerances must have been smaller in the Apollo era. There is an often told story about Mercury software: there were no bugs, because everyone understood that no bugs could be tolerated.

What were the NASA shuttle contingency plans for failures once in orbit, if any existed? Anyone know?

134 posted on 02/03/2003 6:04:56 PM PST by SteveH
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To: LenS
"Why doesn't every mission have the equipment for a space walk?"

My idea is a small, cold-gas powered flyer with a camera. Teleoperated from inside the orbiter. By cold-gas, I mean a tank of compressed helium or nitrogen and teensy thrusters. Maybe weigh 20 kilograms max. It could fly all around the vehicle and let people see in real-time what the condition is.

It would probably cost $100 million to develop, knowing NASA, but it might save lives.

--Boris

135 posted on 02/03/2003 6:05:01 PM PST by boris
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To: chiller
"Also, losing a tile here and there has not proven to be a problem in the past."

When did they fall off and how many in one area. How much surface area was exposed? Were they on a leading edge? What is similar between the conditions of prior events and this one?
136 posted on 02/03/2003 6:05:49 PM PST by Clean_Sweep
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To: Wolfstar; Jael
Thank you very much for posting this.

Now, can you answer a question for me?

What kind of time frame, that is, what is the elapsed time over which this event spans?

We have one poster who is insistent that NASA personnel, in real-time (without benefit of studied frame by frame analysis) could have deduced that an object/material dislodged from the main fuel tank and struck the orbiter, doing damage.

137 posted on 02/03/2003 6:06:12 PM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: meyer
Ditto.

They won't underestimate these problems in the future. You can bet the next time a piece of foam comes off on launch that they will immediately send up another Shuttle to check it out and mount a rescue if necessary. They will not be sending up anymore Shuttles unless and until there are two ready for launch.
138 posted on 02/03/2003 6:07:33 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: DoughtyOne
Once again, you are failing to understand that the air is moving past the shuttle at 1000 mph plus. The object takes on the speed of the air quickly, as in a sail. You hood blows up on your care. The hood was traveling at the exact same speed of the car. But in the wind which catches it, that hood assumes the speed of the air in less than the arc accompanying five feet of motion. Don't tell me that something falling off the top of the tank would only be going 40 to 150 mphs. I'm sorry but that is absurd.

That the object takes on the speed of the air is very dependent on its size and weight. A dense, small object will tend to hold its speed in air much longer than a light object with much surface area. (think rock -vs.- feather in an atmosphere, or leaf vs. acorn if you prefer). If the object is moving at the same speed as the shuttle as this one was until it came loose, its rate of deceleration will be related inversely to its weight. So, a stone with little wind resistance would tend to slow down much more slowly than would a light piece of sheet material with its large surface area.

The loose piece of insulation wasn't a hood, nor is a space shuttle a windshield. It is designed to withstand a great deal of abuse from space debris, asteroids and such. This would be particularly true of the the leading edge of the wing structure. It inherently is strong in that direction as the structure is behind it, much like a knife blade, but without the sharp edge.

Look at the debris that followed the shuttle as it entered the atmosphere - it was much smaller than the main fuselage, but it held its speed almost lock-step with the ship while in the atmosphere. It almost looked like a squadron of sorts, flying in unison formation. It was inside the atmosphere, though in a thinner part of it. Still, it kept up with the ship.

139 posted on 02/03/2003 6:08:03 PM PST by meyer
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To: boris
A telescoping arm in the docking bay would accomplish the same end..
140 posted on 02/03/2003 6:08:19 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (A Shrubbery!)
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