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NASA Could have aborted the flight before it reached orbit!
NASA Website ^ | 02/03/03 | self

Posted on 02/03/2003 8:22:36 AM PST by Preech1

According to NASA's own websites, the shuttle has 25 minutes to abort a launch before the shuttle enters orbit. Had NASA considered the damage to the wing to be a danger to the crew, they could possibly have saved the lives of the 7 astronauts and we would today be speaking of that dramatic event rather than mourning their deaths.

I am in no way blaming NASA for the deaths of these crew members, but instead I am trying to answer the MANY posters who have said the crew was doomed from the start.

While it is true that the crew was doomed once they attained orbit, there was a 25 minute window after launch in which the shuttle could have aborted the mission.

Here's how I see it. The main reason for the break-up appears to be structural failure due to the combined factors of a damaged wing and the heat and stress of re-entry. Had the shuttle aborted the flight at launch, there would still have been a risk with the damaged wing, but speed and re-entry heating would not have factored in. It would have been a bumpy landing to be sure, but they would have landed.

I only write this article to suggest that NASA consider this possibility in future flights. We can do nothing about the past.

May the souls of the Columbia Rest in Peace.


TOPICS: Editorial; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: columbia; feb12003; nasa; shuttle; sts107
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To: Jael
Additionally, let's say they DID see it right away. How long do you think it takes to determine whether or not the potential damage to the ship is worth the extreme measure of aborting the mission? I'll bet it would be more than 25 minutes.

Why do you persist in all this speculation and finger pointing? On the one hand you act like you have this smoking gun. In the other you admit there was probably nothing that could have realistically been done. What's the point of it all?

101 posted on 02/03/2003 12:04:31 PM PST by Trust but Verify
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To: Jael
They are watching it when it happens. They know when it happens.

Duh. No sh*t, Sherlock. We're not idiots. Uuuuuuuuuuggggggggghhhhh!!!!!!!! I need my medication.

Here's a link to your article: http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030203analysis/

102 posted on 02/03/2003 12:07:14 PM PST by MrConfettiMan (One Year+ Low Grade Brain Tumor Survivor - http://www.mcmprod.com/jj)
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To: CharacterCounts
My concern is the left leaning media. I have yet to see one talking head mention the change in the formula to make it "enviroment" friendly. Another Freeper posted the information from the NASA guy, but NASA removed the page later the next day. I found it on a mirror site and I found the cache on Google.

I'm not looking for someone to blame. NASA is about the only government project I like. We are members of the Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, at Marshall Space Center. I guess it bothers me so much because I think it's (the freon) very important, and no one is mentioning it.

And I hate to think that anyone in Alabama could of been involved in such a wacky PC call. "Oh, let's take the freon out!!"

103 posted on 02/03/2003 12:16:19 PM PST by Jael
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To: Trust but Verify
Well, if it's tiring, I guess you could always not post.

But everything about that Shuttle is monitored at the time. As I said before, I don't think the insulation bashing the ship gave them enough info to abort.
104 posted on 02/03/2003 12:18:31 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
Thne I ask you again, please tell me what is the point? The reason I persist is to not let this speculation become fact.
105 posted on 02/03/2003 12:20:37 PM PST by Trust but Verify
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To: Trust but Verify
I'm not pointing fingers and I don't think that the launch could of been aborted. Stop making things up.

I am willing to go to the mat for the truth to be spoken regarding ALL aspects of the Columbia. Else seven people died in vain.
106 posted on 02/03/2003 12:26:17 PM PST by Jael
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To: Trust but Verify
What speculation? What are you talking about? You speculating that NASA didn't see what happened when it happened? Get a grip.

That is your speculation. Own it.

I have posted reports from NASA. No speculating there.
107 posted on 02/03/2003 12:27:55 PM PST by Jael
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To: Preech1
Aborting a launch is extreamly hazardous, IMO, a FD would have to be looking a situation where continuing to orbit would mean certain death. This was not the case, so pressing to orbit was prudent.
108 posted on 02/03/2003 12:31:01 PM PST by Dead Dog (Socialism: Theft justified by lies, enforced by murder)
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To: MrConfettiMan
My reply concerned the posts that said NASA did not see what happened until the next day.

That having been said, that they say it when it happened, my horse in this race is not concerning whether or not the mission could of been aborted.

I don't think that what they saw was indicitive of an abort call.

Sadly, they have become accustomed to the foam falling. THAT is what the problem seems to be.

109 posted on 02/03/2003 12:32:56 PM PST by Jael
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To: Preech1
For the record, here is the abort information:

Abort profiles deal with launch emergencies which occur during ascent. The two types of aborts are the intact and the contingency aborts. An intact abort is a plan to return the orbiter to a preplanned landing site while the contingency abort is used if an intact abort procedure is no longer possible. In the event of a contingency abort the astronauts attempt to land the orbiter wherever they can and if a safe landing is impossible, the crewmembers bail out of the stricken craft and use their parachutes. The contingency abort was examined thoroughly after the Challenger accident and was thought to be survivable. Both of these abort modes assume the orbiter remains in a functioning or flyable condition; the Challenger accident was a catastrophic failure which falls into a non- survivable category.

There are four basic intact shuttle abort modes. They are based upon time of flight of emergency occurrence, energy available, and location of the orbiter. The intact abort mode cannot be initiated until after the SRBs have separated from the rest of the shuttle. The earliest intact abort is the return to launch site (RTLS). If a main engine fails in the first four minutes of flight the orbiter will not reach orbit and the crew must return the shuttle back to KSC. After the SRBs separate the two remaining SSMEs continue to operate to burn as much of the remaining ET propellant as possible. With as little of the fuel remaining in the ET as possible the shuttle executes a powered pitch around maneuver (PPA) where the orbiter and the ET rotate 180_ 6; so that the craft is headed back to KSC. The orbiter is now on top of the ET at this time and the remaining SSMEs are still operating. When the fuel runs out and MECO occurs the ET can be jettisoned safely. It cannot be done so until all of the fuel from the ET has been used because the propellant sloshing around in the ET may cause it to collide with the orbiter. Once the ET has separated the orbiter glides to landing at KSC. This maneuver has never been tried; the aerodynamics involved in rotating a vehicle as large as the orbiter with the ET attached while the SSMEs are still operating could be prohibitive. The RTLS cannot be used after four minutes and thirty seconds into the flight.

If a shuttle main engine fails between 4 minutes 30 seconds and six minutes after launch, the orbiter has enough energy to fly across the Atlantic and land in Morocco, Senegal, Gambia, or Spain depending upon the mission's planned inclination. This is called a Trans Atlantic Landing (TAL). After initiating the TAL the orbiter continues to climb using up all the ET fuel by the operating SSMEs until reaching MECO. The velocity and altitude at this time are far below those required to achieve orbit. The entire vehicle is rolled so the orbiter is on top of the ET and the big tank is jettisoned. The orbiter then lands at the appropriate airfield. The TAL is considered safer than the RTLS and if there is a choice at the four minute mark, the NASA controllers and the astronauts would probably choose the TAL. The TAL is possible at five minutes and thirty seconds into the launch even if two SSMEs are lost.

Six minutes after launch the third option or abort once around (AOA) becomes feasible if one SSME fails. After the ET's propellant burns out and MECO occurs there is enough velocity to achieve a very low orbit through the Earth's upper atmosphere. These orbits decay extremely rapidly, but permit the orbiter to land in California. The astronauts activate the OMS thrusters to sustain a temporary orbit prior to attempting a landing. At seven minutes into the launch the AOA is feasible even if two SSMEs fail.

The final option, abort to orbit (ATO), occurs at six minutes and thirty seconds after launch if one SSME fails. When the ET runs out of propellant and MECO occurs the velocity required for orbit falls short of that required to orbit normally. In this case the velocity differential is so small that it can be compensated by OMS thruster burns. ATO is possible after seven minutes into the flight if two SSMEs fail. In this case the remaining operable SSME is throttled up to 109% at seven minutes or 104% at seven minutes thirty seconds into the flight to achieve ATO.

Of these four intact abort mode only the ATO has been used; the other modes are practiced constantly by the astronauts in the simulators, but have not been necessary in actual flight. Extreme emergencies such as three SSME failure, ruptured ET, or malfunctioning SRB may not be survivable because the SRBs and the ET must be jettisoned before the astronauts can bring the orbiter back to Earth. After Challenger many people conjectured about jettisoning the orbiter away from a malfunctioning stack; the experts say that the survivability factor in such an attempt is little or none.

110 posted on 02/03/2003 12:38:23 PM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: ContemptofCourt
And just who is going to make that $500 million dollar call? Can't imagine any NASA employee that wishes to work in the space industry would...

If they had not gotten complacent over tile damage on takeoff they may have proceduralized the "abort" if any damage was seen on takeoff. I can't believe how many are slaying the messenger when they know NOTHING about the subject!

111 posted on 02/03/2003 12:39:56 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: Preech1
I didn't check the link but know from other sources that they have a procedure for aborting on takeoff. I can't believe how many flamers you have had considering your carefully worded post.
112 posted on 02/03/2003 12:41:02 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: Ravenstar
Did you even bother to read the link?
113 posted on 02/03/2003 12:43:25 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: cinFLA
I did not flame the messenger, although he was worthy of flaming as his post is not accurate...also, my point about aborting a launch that cost $500 million on speculation and a split-second decision is valid....there is a history of the shuttle sustaining tile damage on launch and returning safely....I can't see a NASA manager calling off the mission based on speculation that foam may have damaged the tile.
114 posted on 02/03/2003 12:43:33 PM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: genefromjersey
I suspect, if they had aborted, the same thing would have happened-with even more disatrous results. Picture a shuttle, with a full load of fuel on board,breaking up as it came down, and then exploding near a population center...

Did you bother to read the link?

115 posted on 02/03/2003 12:44:59 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: cinFLA
And here, days after the crash, no one knows for sure if any damage, or the extent of the damage, was caused on launch...yet you seem to think that there can be some abort procedure based upon tile damage at launch, within a 7-minute window?
116 posted on 02/03/2003 12:46:15 PM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: cinFLA
I can't believe how many flamers you have had considering your carefully worded post.

I think it's called "Groupthink."

117 posted on 02/03/2003 12:46:37 PM PST by aristeides
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To: Jael
Sorry for the derogatory reply. It's been an aggravating day.
118 posted on 02/03/2003 12:50:36 PM PST by MrConfettiMan (One Year+ Low Grade Brain Tumor Survivor - http://www.mcmprod.com/jj)
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To: ContemptofCourt
And here, days after the crash, no one knows for sure if any damage, or the extent of the damage, was caused on launch...yet you seem to think that there can be some abort procedure based upon tile damage at launch, within a 7-minute window?

And you don't?

119 posted on 02/03/2003 12:50:52 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: ContemptofCourt
....there is a history of the shuttle sustaining tile damage on launch and returning safely....

All the more reason!

120 posted on 02/03/2003 12:51:54 PM PST by cinFLA
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