NASA Could have aborted the flight before it reached orbit!

NASA Website ^ | 02/03/03 | self

[Preech1]

According to NASA's own websites, the shuttle has 25 minutes to abort a launch before the shuttle enters orbit. Had NASA considered the damage to the wing to be a danger to the crew, they could possibly have saved the lives of the 7 astronauts and we would today be speaking of that dramatic event rather than mourning their deaths.

I am in no way blaming NASA for the deaths of these crew members, but instead I am trying to answer the MANY posters who have said the crew was doomed from the start.

While it is true that the crew was doomed once they attained orbit, there was a 25 minute window after launch in which the shuttle could have aborted the mission.

Here's how I see it. The main reason for the break-up appears to be structural failure due to the combined factors of a damaged wing and the heat and stress of re-entry. Had the shuttle aborted the flight at launch, there would still have been a risk with the damaged wing, but speed and re-entry heating would not have factored in. It would have been a bumpy landing to be sure, but they would have landed.

I only write this article to suggest that NASA consider this possibility in future flights. We can do nothing about the past.

May the souls of the Columbia Rest in Peace.

[Fred Mertz]

No, that's No Such Agency.

[Howlin]

Correct!

[Howlin]

I suspect, if they had aborted, the same thing would have happened-with even more disatrous results. Picture a shuttle, with a full load of fuel on board,breaking up as it came down, and then exploding near a population center...

OH DING DING DING.......move to the head of the class......we have a winner!

Thank you for stating the TRUTH.

[ontos-on]

It would be nice if this discussion could be confined to thinking rather than the personal attacks on people for having such and such thoughts. I beleive that this is caused by the insistence of viewing the NASA people as fools or craven. They are clearly neither.

That's bad news for those who need a black and white world, but that's the way it is.

My own thought is, since the installed foam hardens to such a degree, how did the engineers view the problem of wheterh it would be dangerous of portions of the foam insulation were to fall off the external gas tank. A question, only.

[Trust but Verify]

It's like Whack-A-Mole!

What a great analogy! First smile in a few days just crossed my face.

[July 4th]

I am so damn sick of FR over this. Why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that? The engineers at NASA are the best in the world, and the fact that some people here think they know better those people is really getting to me. The truth is out - space travel is dangerous.

[Redleg Duke]

Oh, Fred and the rest of the paranoids are out in force today.

[MrConfettiMan]

There were people who should have gone to jail.

I was only a junior in college when the Challenger disaster occurred and therefore wasn't too involved in politics or paying too much attention to national news (my mind was focused on beer, women and my studies...in that order). My question is I assume the people who should have gone to jail should've gone because of some "alleged" cover-up and not because of some "alleged" technical design flaw having to do with the shuttle?

[Kozak]

By the way if you think an abort is a simple, safe procedure, guess again. There's a reason its an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE. Depending on the time of the abort they have to quickly initiate the abort, go through their abort procedures and checks, and then try to land (as a glider ) at the abort field. Yeah it's doable but, not as easy as just returning to the Cape.

[Trust but Verify]

I would be willing to second-guess them if all the facts were out and there were credible reasons, given by credible sources to question the decision-making process. At this time, no such thing exists. That won't stop the genetically negative people from jumping the gun. It makes them look silly rather than enlightened.

[TomServo]

I am so damn sick of FR over this. Why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that? The engineers at NASA are the best in the world, and the fact that some people here think they know better those people is really getting to me. The truth is out - space travel is dangerous.

I know what you mean. If I was flying the vehicle, none of this would've ever happened.

Just thought I'd throw out my "know-it-all" chest, too. ;-)

[MrConfettiMan]

Ssssssh. Secret.

[aristeides]

Having worked at both the Pentagon and at NSA, I think I'm entitled to say they're both called the Puzzle Palace. Even though you'd think the "the" means there's only one Puzzle Palace.

[aristeides]

Don't worry about the flames. I think your question is a reasonable one, even if it turns out what you suggest can't be done.

By the way, is ejecting or parachuting out of the shuttle feasible during and after launch? If so, for how many minutes is it possible to do that?

[Beenliedto]

I almost never post anymore because of the flaming that is infesting the forum.

Hey, let 'em flame...

It shows their mindlessness.

The habit of blaming the messenger never ceases to amaze me!

[Jael]

http://ltp.arc.nasa.gov/space/team/journals/katnik/sts87-12-23.html
"Damage numbering up to forty tiles is considered normal on each mission due to ice dropping off of the external tank (ET) and plume re-circulation causing this debris to impact with the tiles. But the extent of damage at the conclusion of this mission was not "normal."

The pattern of hits did not follow aerodynamic expectations, and the number, size and severity of hits were abnormal. Three hundred and eight hits were counted during the inspection, one-hundred and thirty two (132) were greater than one inch. Some of the hits measured fifteen (15) inches long with depths measuring up to one and one-half (1 1/2) inches. Considering that the depth of the tile is two (2) inches, a 75% penetration depth had been reached. Over one hundred (100) tiles have been removed from the Columbia because they were irreparable.

During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the
external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally
friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank
had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is
suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external
tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to
the protective tiles of the orbiter."



http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/newsreleases/1999/99-041.htm
"According to NASA, during several previous Space Shuttle flights, including the shuttle launched Nov. 29, 1998, the shuttle external tank experienced a significant loss of foam from the intertank. The material lost caused damage to the thermal protection high-temperature tiles on the lower surface of the shuttle orbiter.

Although the AEDC Tunnel A tests did not replicate the in-flight failures, they did provide detailed measurements to better understand the flight environment and fundamental failure mode. From these tests, NASA determined the failure is caused principally by foam cell expansion due to external heating at approximately Mach 4 combined with pressure change and aerodynamic shear. Specialized miniature shear gages and other instrumentation were installed during the test to measure these forces."

[Jael]

During Columbia's launching Jan. 16, long-range tracking cameras showed a relatively large piece of foam debris falling away from the shuttle's external tank and striking the underside of the orbiter's left wing. The debris is believed to have measured about 20 inches in its longest dimension.

http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030203analysis/

You folks have to remember that ever aspect of the flight is monitored. There isn't any kind of "looking at the tapes the next day" except to re look. They are watching it when it happens. They know when it happens.

That having been said, I do not think that what they saw was abort worthy. And that's the bad part. They had become accustomed to the foam falling off the tanks. But they did see it when it happened.

[CharacterCounts]

They had become accustomed to the foam falling off the tanks

My prediction is that the foam factor will develop into big news over the coming months.

[Trust but Verify]

I don't take it to mean they saw it as it happened, only that the images were captured by the cameras. Regardless, this is getting so tiring.