BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[FReepaholic]

>>...This is what NASA is (or should be) all about. Excruciatingly self-critical and willing to accept criticism from outsiders....<<

That wasn't my point. My point was that people are jumping to conclusions based upon lack of knowledge.

[Poohbah]

Actually its a lot harder since I-70 and I-40 merge on the Poplar Street Bridge in St. Louis. At least here you could stop the vehicles on the bridge or attempt a rescue like in the movie "Speed." Not something that you can do in space.

I drove the I-40 route from DC to CA after 9/11...I never passed through St. Louis.

[Slyfox]

Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch.

It was more likely ice from the tank filled with liquid hydrogen, which is a bigger problem than a foam breakoff. But, be that as it may, I think NASA should be applauded for it's handling of this 'bad day'. There are no goons going around telling people they didn't see what they saw. They are accepting any and all information.

Rush is right again. Whenever he goes on vacation, something big happens.

[Chad Fairbanks]

My point was that people are jumping to conclusions based upon lack of knowledge.

BUMP!

[Darlin']

"These NASA talking heads are toast"

Toast ? Just who is going to toast them and for what reason ? They are spokesmen for God's sake. Their responsibility is to release information and try to answer legitimate questions in a timely fashion. They are not investigating anything someone else will do that when ALL the evidence that can be collected is collected. Right now most of that evidence is still strewn across 2 states. They are not there to engage in wild speculation from goof balls.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Astronaut Hammond thought it could be readied in a week.

Which brings me back to the point that you do not shave almost an entire month off of the launch prep without serious consequences.

The point of Hammond I think is that the essential functions of a launch can be checked through in a week - it's the particular, many and varied additional tasks associated with testing and loading experiements,cargo, etc. to suit the "customers" dominate the checklist. Of course to stow rescue equipment to the cargo bay, practice emergency procedures should take extra time, but many tasks can take place in parallel and some rescue items (rescue balls) can be loaded at launch time.

In summary, a basic launch with two crew, is an established procedure and barring equipemtn problems can go smoothly.

Also in this particular instance the Atlantis has been checked out thouroughly over previous concerns and is ready to fly soon.

[GodBlessRonaldReagan]

People have jumped from balloons at 100,000 feet

Not at Mach 18...

[djf]

The answer to this whole problem depends on the answer to one question: Can they pressurize/depressurize the cargo bay? If so, you send up another shuttle with suits, transport them into the opened cargo bay of Columbia, let everyone get dressed and back into the bay, and have them tether over to the cargo bay of the stand by shuttle.

I don't buy the "Nothing could be done" rhetoric.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

This is what NASA is (or should be) all about. Excruciatingly self-critical and willing to accept criticism from outsiders.

That's all well and good, so long as the criticism is pertinent and actually based in reality. Much of what has been offered as criticism on this thread doesn't really qualify.

[TLBSHOW]

I know, but I don't mean too! LOL really....

[Fitzcarraldo]

PRE Rescue Ball NASA Johnson Personal Rescue Enclosure escape ball - suited astronaut would move it from shuttle to shuttle.

Other Designations: Personal Rescue Enclosure. Manufacturer's Designation: PRE. Class: Manned. Type: Bailout. Nation: USA. Agency: NASA. Manufacturer: NASA Johnson.

Before the Challenger disaster, shuttle crews wore no space suits. This presented the problem of how to move them from one shuttle to another - if - it was possible to launch a rescue mission before the supplies aboard the stranded shuttle ran out.

To address this problem, Johnson Spaceflight Center devised the most minimal spacecraft of all time - the Personal Rescue Enclosure (PRE) Rescue Ball. The rescue ball was an 86 cm diameter high-tech beach ball with three layers: urethane inner enclosure, Kevlar middle layer, and a white outer thermal protective cover. Crew members were to climb into the ball, assume a fetal position, and be zipped inside by a space suited crew member. They donned an oxygen mask and cradled in their arms a carbon dioxide scrubber/oxygen supply box with one hour worth of oxygen. The ball would be connected by an umbilical to the shuttle to supply air until the airlock depressurized. The crew member would then be floated over to the rescue shuttle by the suited astronaut. The process would be repeated until the entire crew was moved from one spacecraft to another.

A tiny window was provided to prevent total sensory deprivation. It is said that when they were in use, astronaut candidates would be asked to get in one. After fifteen minutes or so, the candidate was asked how long they thought they had been in. If the candidate was not hysterical and guessed anything under an hour, they passed! The space ball was much touted and appeared in all kinds of kids' books about the shuttle before the Challenger explosion. Little has been heard of it since...

Craft.Crew Size: 1. Total Length: 0.9 m. Maximum Diameter: 0.9 m. Total Habitable Volume: 0.33 m3.

[Dave S]

Couldn't they have changed their flight plans and gone to the space station, docked, had someone with a suit go out and perform a more thorough analysis, and, although extreme, if determined to be damaged enough, release the Columbia into space and all 10 wait for another shuttle to get them?

Im glad I took my blood pressure medication today. Idiot. READ. At least 50 times its been posted on this thread why this couldnt occur. Get into your freaking head that the shuttle is a glider not a rocket ship with a warp engine. It has a small rocket but thats for setting course and creating movement, not for propulsion. They couldnt get to the space station, they couldnt dock with it, and they couldnt space walk to it. And no they couldnt teleport, thats star trek.

Before you call that stupid, what other alternative could there be, other than calling them just plain doomed to die... ?

Sometimes there is nothing you can do but try to re-enter. Better to try that and burn up, knowing that there is only a 5% chance of survival than to stay up in orbit until their oxygen runs out this Wednesday with a 0% chance of survival.

[bvw]

You underestimate the numbing tyranny of the familiar procedure, even among people committed since childhood to careful work and diligence, even in a high tech environment.

[freebilly]

Probablt at least one will say it was God's will because our country is straying from the faith, and another that it has to do with our govts stance on abortion.

...Bush's tax cuts were responsible....

[PBRSTREETGANG]

The space ball was much touted and appeared in all kinds of kids' books about the shuttle before the Challenger explosion. Little has been heard of it since...

I think Mel Brooks made a movie about them.

[Mo1]

Crew members were to climb into the ball, assume a fetal position, and be zipped inside by a space suited crew member. They donned an oxygen mask and cradled in their arms a carbon dioxide scrubber/oxygen supply box with one hour worth of oxygen. The ball would be connected by an umbilical to the shuttle to supply air until the airlock depressurized. The crew member would then be floated over to the rescue shuttle by the suited astronaut. The process would be repeated until the entire crew was moved from one spacecraft to another.

Where did that information come from?

[Timesink]

Preech1 has found a more detailed description of potential shuttle launch-abort sequences. But Mark is right; if they didn't even notice the foam breaking off until a day after launch, it was way beyond too late to abort.

[Dave S]

As astronaut just voiced his opinion (interviewed live on KFI-AM, Los Angeles) that because of the current state of preparation of Atlantis, it could have been launched to rescue the crew within a week and that the crew could have been passed from one spacecraft to the other in the "beachball" rescue suits.

Did the former astronaut mention how the shuttle crew was going to hold their breath from the time their oxygen ran out on Wednesday till the rescue shuttle arrived on Saturday or Sunday?

[Mo1]

Well try harder .. Geezz .. LOL

[Fitzcarraldo]

PRE Rescue Ball - NASA Johnson Personal Rescue Enclosure escape ball - unhappy camper inside transparent demonstration version. The real version had a white cover with only a tiny porthole to prevent claustrophobia.