A rescue of the crew was unlikely

Washington Times ^ | 2/03/03 | Marcia Dunn, AP

[Bobby777]

just caught this on MSNBC.Com ... says there was the rumor of the spy birds and ground space surveillance cameras used back in the '80's that I referred to earlier ... FWIW ...

There have long been reports that both Keyhole spy satellites, operated by the supersecret National Reconnaissance Office in Virginia, and two sophisticated ground cameras in Florida and Hawaii, operated by the Air Force Space Command, have taken snapshots of the shuttle to help NASA assess safety concerns, primarily on Columbia’s first mission in 1981, when tile damage was a major concern.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/867770.asp?0cv=CB10

[HiTech RedNeck]

Wonder if they could have looked at it with Hubble.

[Bobby777]

doubtful ... Hubble is reportedly a descendent of KH-11/12 technology (IIRC) but the mirror are set for great distances and would not be capable of close inspection ... that's why they launched Hubble without testing the mirrors, because it required long distances ...

at least one engineer said he had devised a way to test it but was ignored as not possible ... nonetheless, more than a little bit of money was spent to fix it ... the Hubble I have heard manuevers differently than a KH-11/12 (what ever is up there now) which are flyable on hydrazine and can be retasked for different altitudes, orbits and inclinations ...

KH-11/12 were mid-to-late 1970's and 1980's ... some said Challenger was carrying a KH-12 when it went up and then a Titan IV failure destroyed the last KH-11 leaving the USA with limited eyes in space when planning El Dorado Canyon to Libya in April, 1986 ... (thanks for nothing France on the denied fly-overs for our F-111's) ...

those birds were supposed to be very good and there's no telling what we have now ... check out the Teal Amber / Teal Blue link I posted on this thread ... those cameras were used to watch Russian cosmonauts as they worked in space (Burroughs again) ...

one editor got a KH-11 photo of a Russian carrier under construction ... and published them ... (yikes) ... the NSA/NRO didn't find it amusing and threw the guy in prison ... it was classified material and not for publishing ... I think it was a Russian Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier being built in two sections .... once known as "Black Com 2" ...

[Junior]

Nope. Each of the thousands of tiles on the orbiter has a unique shape to fit a specific location. You'd have to carry an entire set of tiles to have one to fit any missing tile.

[Junior]

The space station has its own lifeboat -- basically an old Russian Soyuz.

[AntiGuv]

D I would have jetasoned the SpaceHab and gone down with the ship.

Would you mind elaborating a bit on this point? Are you saying jettison the SpaceHab in order to reduce the weight of the Columbia, and then attempt a typical shuttle reentry? By the way, what's the SpaceHab?

[Caesar Soze]

There have long been reports that both Keyhole spy satellites, operated by the supersecret National Reconnaissance Office in Virginia

Gahh. The NRO isn't Secret, Top Secret, or even Supersecret. Its existence was declassified years ago. Perhaps the author meant to write "secretive" or (gag) "supersecretive."

[Bobby777]

I think they had two on Mir ... but they only hold two or three crew members correct? ... I suppose, had it been possible (seems it wasn't possible for them to meet up), some could have been sent down and the rest await the next resupply ship which docks automatically I think ... saw some footage of it approaching Mir, firing its control jets for final docking ... all under computer control ... very impressive ...

[Junior]

One of the masses is that of the Earth, and it is so overwhelmingly larger than the other masses (satellites, orbiters, space stations) that the latter may be left entirely out of the equation.

[Bobby777]

I believe he meant to jettison the unit to reduce weight and perhaps facilitate the re-entry ... it is in the cargo bay of the shuttle and much of the "work" is done there (when it is carried) ... I don't think they carry the robot arm due to space limitations when the 'Hab is installed ... so the camera on the arm wasn't available and couldn't reach over the doors to see the wing anyway (that wasn't you question of course) ...

[Bobby777]

LOL ...

[Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh]

Bottom line is this:

The shuttle was damaged on lift-off. They "analyzed" that, without visual confirmation, and determined it was not a problem.

They made ZERO effort to get a visual inspection after that. No space walk to examine the ship. No telescopes used. No satellites used. No cameras/telescopes from orbit (space station, hubble, etc) used either. They did absolutely NOTHING after making that initial uneducated evaluation.

That was a HUGE mistake. And, in the press conference, the NASA program director gave it all away with his response:

QUESTION: Did NASA consider a spacewalk to examine the damage?

ANSWER: We don't have the ability to repair tiles in space.

That did NOT answer the question. Who cares if that shuttle could have repaired the tiles? The should have at least inspected to see if there was a problem.

IF they had inspected, and found the problem, then contingency plans could have been made:

1) Stay in orbit as long as possible.
2) Download all shuttle data, all expierment data, and give the crew time to say personal goodbyes, letters, emails, radio calls, etc.
3) Analyze contingency plans such as launching another shuttle to rescue them, launching another shuttle to repair the damage, spacewalking to repair the damage if possible, docking with space station to wait out rescue/repair, or simply taking as long as possible before attempting re-entry or simply dieing in orbit.

NASA made a huge mistake. And the program director's evasive non-responsive answer betrayed his feelings of guild and responsibility.

---

[freebilly]

In the early shuttle days, NASA considered a tile-patching kit that was essentially a caulking gun, but the gunk undermined the performance of the tiles and never flew.

Translation-- "The stuff would never work, anyway, so we got rid of it and never developed anything that would hold up to the heat of re-entry...."

[Lancey Howard]

Ping.
This here is a very interesting article.

[Willie Green]

Most importantly, NASA first needed to check out the wing.

Man, you've really latched onto the "single bullet theory", haven't you?
Did you have a similar concern when the Russian submarine Kursk sank?
Something along the lines that maybe something might have been
done if only the submarine had sent out divers to look at the damage?

[RaceBannon]

remember, though, the epoxy used to bond the tiles normally is used at room temperature, then maybe heated under lights to bond it. Then a vaccuum bag is put over the time, vaccuum applied to getout all voids (air pockets), and that would be almost impossible to do in space on the vehicle itself. The vaccuum of space might allow it's use, but the extreme cold will cause the epoxy to freeze before bonding, probably.

There might be an epoxy that can be spread in a caulking gun type device, but it would be freezing as soon as it touched the tile surface, not bonding. Re-entry would burn it off, not cure it I imagine.

It might be possible to make a patch with epoxy impregnated in it, to lay over the tile, like a clothes patch, then have a heat gun in the astronauts hand radiate on the patch, but this would be a LONG spacewalk, and a lot of material to carry with you to the walk.

[JennysCool]

Thanks for the info. The need to go through all that would seem to argue -- as a lot of things do -- for a redesign of the shuttle vehicle, wouldn't it? I'm sure engineering advances and breakthroughs since the original fleet was built could make for a safer and better shuttle. I hope the tragedy results in just such an outcome, and my faith in American ingenuity suggests that would be the case.