A rescue of the crew was unlikely

Washington Times ^ | 2/03/03 | Marcia Dunn, AP

[kattracks]

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla.

[John Jamieson]

yes, mass cancels

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Just use duct tape, bungee cords, bailing wire, super glue, shoe leather, bubblegum and rubber bands and equip every shuttle with several MMUs so the whole crew can go outside and do a "walk" around. Use the cargo bay doors like a big lobster claw. That's the ticket. Better yet, just make McGyver a member of every crew.

[Bobby777]

I would have jetasoned the SpaceHab

exactly ... and take their chances perhaps with a less-steep entry ...

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Read the story:

"In the early shuttle days, NASA considered a tile-patching kit that was essentially a caulking gun, but the gunk undermined the performance of the tiles and never flew."

[John Jamieson]

"the basics get pushed aside for schedules"

No, they don't, I worked there for 27 years, where were you when you saw this problem?

[Bobby777]

well then, why was Challenger launched when the boosters were outside the design limits on temperature? ... they checked the vehicle with a hand-held gun but the Thiokol engineers said it was too cold to launch, and that the O-rings would not seat properly at that temperature ... there had already been more than 2 instances where the recovered boosters showed significant burn damage to the rings ...

so Vandenburg equipped their pad with jet engines to heat the shuttle after that accident ... why were the Thiokol engineers ignored?

[John Jamieson]

A Progess mission would not help, the crew could not safely dock with it, nor get anything off of it. Only two manned Shuttle flights could safely get everyone off (7 seats, no standing).

[John Jamieson]

One Thiokol engineer objected and his boss overrid his objection. The engineer was right and I have a lot of respect for him, but the temperature was probably not the issue, just the o rings. He was actual right for the wrong reason. People do the best they can. Perfection should not be expected when pushing the envelop. Atleast one person objects about every launch. The problem list that managers work is 100's long.

[Iwentsouth]

Couldn't they have sent up Bruce Willis or something?

[Bobby777]

are you conceding that potentially valid objections are overruled then, because of schedules or costs? ... that was my point ... there was some reason his manager overruled him ... and if I understand correctly, those barriers were ostensibly removed after the 1986 incident ...

[John Jamieson]

Now your talking!

[John Jamieson]

"there was some reason his manager overruled him"

Yes, he thought the guy was wrong. If he thought he was right, the launch would have been scrubbed. They might have waited two days, launched on a warm day, and the o rings might have rolled in their seats and let some exhaust out and ...... we'll never know.

Don't assume that these people want to take chances, they don't, but they would like to launch a rocket every once in a while. They make difficult decisions that you don't have to ..... be greatful.

[JSteff]

I don't know if God gets involved in the little details. He just gives us the stuff to do things, what we do after that is up to us.
Somebody just did not us the stuff right.

[Bobby777]

unforseeable problems, like Apollo 13 are a little easier for me to understand ... fortunately there was no loss of life ... the mission and the equipment mean nothing compared to the lives of the astronauts to me ...

of course, I would ask hard questions of airline mechanics too ... if you remember AA191 out of Chicago in 1979, the engine / pylon to wing assembly was done outside of design specs ... my buddy was there when it went down ... they attached the engine to the pylon and then the pylon to the wing, but they were supposed to put the pylon on the wing and then attach the engine to avoid damaging the pylon ...

BTW, it was William Burroughs who reported that Teal Blue or Teal Amber (don't remember which one) was used to image the orbiter back in the '80's ...

there's some info on Teal Blue and Teal Amber near the bottom of this page ...

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/track/overview.htm

[a_Turk]

>>I don't know if God gets involved in the little details.

But that's exactly where God is, in the details.. Specifically in math and physics, IMO.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Sure would have been nice to have seen what was damaged even if it meant the crew was, or was likely, doomed. The hypothetical jet camera would have answered the question of wing damage. Ignorance isn't bliss if the knowledge thus discarded can save a future crew, and I think the crew of the Columbia would have agreed.