NASA Press Conference LIVE THREAD

Fox, CNN, networks, NASA TV | February 2, 2003 | NASA

[snopercod]

Any time now...

[mewzilla]

Sure, there's another back-up plan. You stay in orbit and let someone come to you. Not ideal, but it beats frying.

[Republic of Texas]

All the tiles are different. You would have to fill the payload with spare tiles. Not going to get much science done that way.

[_Jim]

Just out of curiosity, how do they know the tiles couldn't have been fixed in orbit.

Hmmm ... what would that repair procdedure look like ... first step - suit up ... move required materials into airlock and then into space ... rig-up remote manipulator arm ... move into position *if* reachable by remote manip arm ... perform surface preparation (chip out old tile - carefully w/space suit on) ... apply chemical cleaning agent to surface while still in vacuum of space (specially developed for use in the vacuum of space which leaves out *most* all common compounds) ... apply recommended glueing agent (specially developed, again, for use in the vacuum of space) ... mount the *correct* tile (last I heard each one was unique) into position ... somehow get the glue, in the vacuum of space, to not out-gas, but instead cure properly (such that it's shear and tensile strengths are what are required for this app) ...

[txradioguy]

The curing process required to bond the tiles to the shuttle require that it be done in a process only capable of being done (at this time) here on earth. Each tile, from what I've read it individually shaped to fit that certain spot on the aircraft.

[Jael]

Hi, I've been reading some of your posts on this and I was wondering if you could answer a few questions?

What do you think about the freon-less foam that started coming off in hunks a while back? 1997? I keep reading from NASA that the concern was financial, in replacing the tiles, that they didn't consider it a flight saftey issue. Any thoughts?

What is the last point (from liftoff) that they could of aborted the mission?

[snopercod]

I like the idea of the camera drone. Really.

But as NASA has reported many times, even if they found tile damage, the have never been able to find a way to repair it on orbit in the vacuum of space.

As you know, each shuttle tile is custom made in size and shape. So you would have to fill a gap with come kind of caulk or foam or something.

Nobody has found such a material that will work in the cold vacuum of space...so far.

[wasp69]

Irregardless if your analysis was wrong (BTW I'm still not convinced it wasn't since the images on that post were of a television and the original was shot with commercial gear from an airplane which you don't need to be an imaging expert to tell and the "out of focus" shot showed a large flat piece tumbling away from the image and it was in focus) I would still be possible for the shuttle to have overcorrected to the right and come apart under the stress. I am still waiting to see if they recover a large portion of the tail section somewhere west of D/FW. I would also like to see the time correlation between the video and where NASA lost contact. I would suspect that contact was lost for several seconds before Columbia actually broke up. It does seem to support what I said on your thread yesterday about the wires being burned through. Hopefully we will learn soon and hopefully NASA can do something about it. All in all, they still have one of the best safety records ever.

[Republic of Texas]

If you KNOW that the shuttle can't re-enter, maybe. No one KNEW this beforehand. For all we know, the computer screwed up and flipped them during re-entry. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.

[Jael]

I don't fauly anyone for this, I hope you didn't get that impression. If I had to point a finger, which I would be loathe do, it would start with the tree huggers who got Freon outlawed.

[_Jim]

the assertion that flight safety would not suffer

That assertion, if true, is the goal. That assertion, if false, is damning ...

[alancarp]

I'll take one of your questions: I believe that the last 3 emergency abort landing sites are some place in Spain, Ben Gurion airport in Israel, and out at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean (God help somebody if they have to try for one of these!).

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks. I read an article on here somewhere today that addressed cracks in the shuttles. I'm afraid I don't remember the location either, but they were 0.10" to 0.30" in size. Perhaps this reporter was thinking he could lead into an area where the aging shuttle could be more suspect that initially thought. I don't know. Some of the blow-off responses were appropriate, but I thought this reporter might have been on to something.

As for stress, isn't re-entry more stress than most airliners experience, or did I misunderstand you?

[Rain-maker]

INCOMPETENCE ALERT:

The tile and foam has been  a long and continuing problem!

 

• VEHICLE: Endeavour/OV-105
• LOCATION: Vehicle Assembly Building
• TARGET KSC LAUNCH DATE/TIME: Jan. 20, 1998 at 10:31 p.m. EST (under review)
• LAUNCH WINDOW: 7-10 minutes
• MIR DOCKING DATE/TIME: Jan. 22 at about 3:28 p.m. EST
• MIR UNDOCKING DATE/TIME: Jan. 27 at about 12:08 p.m. EST
• TARGET KSC LANDING DATE/TIME: Jan. 29, 1998 at 7:18 p.m. EST
• MISSION DURATION: 9 days
• CREW: Wilcutt, Edwards, Dunbar, Anderson, Reilly, Sharipov, Thomas (up), Wolf (down)
• ORBITAL ALTITUDE and INCLINATION: 160 nautical miles/51.6 degrees

NOTE: Shuttle Endeavour is mated to the external tank and solid rocket boosters (SRB) in Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) high bay 1. The Shuttle interface test is in work through tomorrow afternoon. Tonight, technicians will begin sanding operations to remove a thin layer of the foam insulation on the STS-89 external tank, in a small area located near the SRB attach points. While investigations into the cause of Columbia’s unusual tile damage continue, managers hope the additional work will reduce the possibility of external tank foam debris contributing to Shuttle tile damage. Sanding the foam will not compromise the tank’s thermal protection and does not violate any engineering or design parameters. Endeavour will roll out to the launch pad no earlier than Dec. 17.

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/status/stsstat/1997/dec/12-15-97.htm

[WoofDog123]

"This fact seems lost on "Send Bruce Willis and his lovable misfits up to save them" crowd. Nonetheless, it is still an indisputable fact."

My suspicion on this is that the possible problem with the foam impact was discussed with the crew, and given that there was naught to be done, re-entry was attempted as the only option available.

Was this the worst recorded evident impact of foam? That, as well as the weight of this mission and vehicle, should have been huge concerns. They certainly had to go upstairs on whether to publicize this. The us media (and some elements of the public) would whine about this, but what else do you do when a mission stands a real chance of being a total loss. Tell people to tune in ahead of time for a possible burn-out? I don't think so.

I think a lot of the misperceptions on the 'options' people think were available come from science-fiction tv and a lack of understanding of the speeds and distances invovled versus the equipment we do it with.

[alancarp]

Oh, and for the record, those emergency landing areas can only be used before insertion into orbit (i.e., during lap #1 of the earth).

[txradioguy]

From what I've read about the change in foam. It was a move to keep the happy with the green weenies. And it sounds like they sacrificed the strength and integrity of the insulation in favor of being PC. Which to me is a criminal act. As for the last possible moment of aborting, I'm not sure of the specific altitude, but I do know that depending on where they are in the lauhc phase they have several airports around the world where they can land if they have to punch off the external fuel tank before they achieve orbit. Off the top of my head they emergency landing sites are in Spain, Australia, Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga., and of course Edwards AFB and right there at KSC. As for the flight safety issues, IMHO, with the yearly reduction in the NASA budget, I hink that the safety guys just kept dumbing down the bar for what was "unacceptable risk" in operating the Shuttle Program.

[John Jamieson]

I'm very impressed with Ron Dittemore. I never meet him (retired 10 years ago), but this man was not in the john when the decisions were made. I couldn't help but compare his candor to the Eron creeps.

[HairOfTheDog]

You are fixating on this Freon-free foam thing. It is all you have talked about on this thread.

Do you have any expertise in insulation, or foam, or freon? Or did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

[Rafterman1]

INCOMPETENCE ALERT:

THAT'S IT! You've solved the puzzle! All the experts should now completely ignore the evidence and bow to your obviously superior knowledge!

[John Jamieson]

No, they can be used anytime they happen to be under the flight path.