CBS Radio News Now Reporting Human Remains Found. Believed To Be From Shuttle

Story moved on WFLA / WFLF Orlando | CBS Radio News

[MindBender26]

CBS Radio News Now Reporting Human Remains Found. Believed To Be From Shuttle / at the 7:45 PM EST update.

Unconfirmed report from rural area near Palestine, TX. Sheriffs Dept in that area reports human remains found, believed to be from shuttle.

[RadioAstronomer]

I ask God Almighty to bless and cradle them all...a futile request, for I know it's already done...I just need to say it, I guess...(

Thank you so much.

[xJones]

Hebron, Texas is about 100 miles away. There're numerous Texas towns named from the Bible. When Palestine, Texas was founded by Christians about 150 years ago, the Holy Land was called Palestine.

[Jael]

What if the debris had momentum

[Campion]

Yes, some brief calculations tell me that an object freely falling from 200,000 ft. would have taken 104 min. or 1 Hour, 4 Min. to reach the earth. This, of course is from the formula that objects fall due to gravity at 9.8 m/s.

Uh, objects accelerate due to gravity at 9.8 m/sec**2, they don't fall at 9.8 m/sec. The correct calculation shows that an object dropped from 200000 feet in a vacuum would hit the ground in 111 seconds, or a bit under 2 minutes. However, in reality, an object dropped from 200000 ft above the earth is falling in air, and so would hit a terminal (maximum) velocity which would depend on its aerodynamic characteristics. For something with minimum lift and substantial density, like a big piece of metal wreckage, that's going to be in the vicinity of 200 or 300 miles per hour, meaning that the time to hit from 200,000 feet is roughly around 8-10 minutes.

[steveegg]

I respect the fact that the tolerances are pretty tight for the angle of re-entry, but I don't see how they could be that tight.

I think (do not quote me), that the margin of error is closer to 1-2 degrees. One of the early re-entries was hand-flown by a Marine pilot, just to see if it could be done. Also, right up until the loss of data, despite the rising temperatures in the left wing, Columbia was flying in the groove.

I am betting that the official inquiry will eventually conclude that the tiles on the left wing were damaged.

Next questions, if that is the answer; how/when? I can come up with essentially 3 theories on that; the foam strike, a piece of debris while in orbit, and just the wrong tiles coming off.

The foam strike is a prime suspect (it is about as clear as it can be while watching a shuttle well downrange that it did happen), though it ignores the fact that similar incidents in the past have not caused an appreciable amount of damage. What may (I stress MAY) not have occured before is pieces of that foam getting between the tiles, which MAY (again, I can't stress that enough) not have been fully-considered by NASA.

A piece of debris has a mysterious appeal, though it is actually quite possible. At orbital velocities, a strike by an object (or series of objects) too small to see from the cockpit or on any radar could have damaged the tiles enough to cause key ones to fail. Related to that, but discountable, is a cululative toll of this effect; while Columbia was on its 28th mission, it was only its second after a major overhaul.

That leaves the wrong tiles coming off on their own at the wrong time. As a percentage of tiles do come off the shuttles, both during launch and re-entry, it could have been only a matter of time before a sufficient number came off from the same general area to cause a cascading series of events, with that time having been yesterday.

My guess is that it was a combination of these factors, which could not have been predicted beforehand, that doomed the crew of Columbia.

[wharfrat]

I know it sounds morbid the day after a disaster like this but do those in charge take DNA samples in case situations arise like this? I would certainly hope so; for the family's sake and for closure!

[glory]

I may be wrong, but I think ffusco was referring to the Challenger disaster since the post he was asking of was regarding the used O2 canisters in the module.

Ffusco, if I'm right and that's what you were addressing, it is indeed been the record that a few of the crew survived the initial explosion and the module was intact all the way down to the ocean where they died on impact. The altitude was much lower and speed slower than the Columbia disaster and the astronuts were still in the protective module from the shuttle. One can only wonder if the outcome had been different there if the module itself had been equipped with a parachute of some kind(similar to what slows the shuttle down on the ground?) or some kind of ejection apparatus with parachutes--they definitely were not so high that it could not have been employed successfully(I don't believe they got past 65,000 feet if the good people on FR are right)

[steveegg]

Let's just say that they'll be positively identified.

[Bogie]

With today's genetic testing it should be no problem.

This is NASA, not an "OJ jury."

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

As a baby he wore tinfoil diapers.

[Atlantian]

From today's AJC, "Hemphill, TX resident Bob White said his sons--ages 8, 6, and 4--found a human leg in their pasture. White said that because of the small size of the leg and foot, he thought it might have belonged to a woman."

[Alouette]

When Palestine, Texas was founded by Christians about 150 years ago, the Holy Land was called Palestine.

And the only people calling themselves "Palestinians" were Jews.

[rs79bm]

You are correct. I was performing the calculation in a broader sense. Traveling with a velocity of 400 to 500 mph would have taken a little over 9 minutes.

[Jackie]

I wondered why posts 59 and 60 were removed. No. 59 is still in my Find in Forum. Just curious.

[ewing]

China has a satellite particle beam weapon?

[Mark Felton]

Debris Photos (post them here)


We are collecting debris photos here. (Hardware only)

[mountaineer]

In a sober reminder of the human cost of Saturday's disaster, a burned torso was found near Hemphill; the remnants of a space suit a few hundred yards away. A crew member's burned helmet was found in adjacent San Augustine County. Searchers reported finding other body parts, charred shoes, mission patches and other personal effects across the southern part of the debris field. ....

While the military is taking charge of securing debris, the FBI is leading the recovery of human remains. A few conflicts occurred in debris-laden Nacogdoches County, where some residents were trying to block authorities from examining debris that fell on their land. "We have had reports that they didn't want to allow us onto their property because they wanted to preserve (the debris) for themselves," Kerss said, adding that people who obstruct the investigation could face criminal charges. source

---------------------
It was inevitable that this sort of disgusting behavior would occur.

[mountaineer]

.... Clark Barnett, 32, spotted an object while driving on Farm-to-Market Road 2971 Saturday morning. He didn't give it much thought until he got a call from friend Mike Gibbs, an X-ray technician at Sabine County Hospital, who told him about the shuttle explosion.

Both men met on the two-lane road about 9 a.m. and realized with horror that they apparently were looking at an astronaut's remains: a charred torso, thigh bone and skull with front teeth intact.

"I wouldn't want anybody seeing what I saw," Gibbs, 33, told The Associated Press. "It was pretty gruesome."

Fire trucks arrived shortly and blocked the road as authorities collected evidence. A hearse was seen leaving the area Saturday evening after officials loaded it with a black bag.

Two young boys found a charred human leg on their farm in Sabine County, about 50 miles east of Nacogdoches, The Dallas Morning News reported in Sunday editions. "From the hip to the foot," their father, Bob White said, "it's all there, scorched from the fire."

Billy Smith, the emergency management coordinator for Jasper, Sabine and Newton counties, confirmed that body parts were found near apparent shuttle debris in Sabine County.

The remains have been turned over to the FBI, officials said.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/20103_nat_humanremains.html

[Admin Moderator]

The poster requested they be pulled. I don't know why they're still showing up in you self search.

[Jackie]

. . .the time to hit from 200,000 feet is roughly around 8-10 minutes.

Being very concerned, we were scanning all the channels, and "debris reaching the ground" wasn't even mentioned for at least two hours. Thanks for your calculations.