No SAM Capable of Hitting SHuttle

FAS Website ^ | 6-30-2000 | Federation of American Scientists

[11B3]

Well, this thread made me go out and get TWO ROLLS of foil, and I promptly made them into a very thick helmet.....And then I remembered the article.

Pre-9/11, I remember reading an article here in FR that dealt with China's "asymmetric warfare" ideas. One of those ideas was to launch payloads into near earth orbit carrying small mines that would attach themselves to our space hardware. (They specifically mentioned the GPS sats and the KH-11s.) These space mines would have been "command detonated".

Note: China just had their big test run for their manned program not very long ago. It supposedly carried scientific payload, but who really knows. What was it's orbiting altitutde? The Chinese would love to see our space program down the toilet when theirs is ramping up - just like economies.

It may be foil, but they are indeed our true enemy. Even more so than the Russians. After all, Slick made sure they had all the goods to take us down.

[TeleStraightShooter]

True.

Sick.

On second thought, should that happen, the vultures would be anounncing to the world they are commiting a crime by trying to sell something that is not theirs,
-and-
hawking evidence of a poss crime scene.........

[Steel Wolf]

I've been jumping out of military jet aircraft for years, and I can feel the difference between every 20 knots of increased speed. The hardest I've ever felt seemed like a full body punch, and that was at a tiny tiny fraction of Mach 6. I've never seen the numbers, I can't imagine anyone even surviving an unshielded bail out at Mach 1. It would be like being struck by an invisbile wrecking ball at full swing.

[tallhappy]

Here is one for the tin foilers. The nly thing that may have been capable would be the new "Star Wars" stuff.

If terrorists were able to shoot it down at that level and speed, well, then...they will win.

But that isn't the case.

[ladyinred]

But two things I'll safely predict. First, a good many items of junk will be reported as fallen Columbia debris. Second, within a week somebody on E-Bay will try offering that junk as "Space Shuttle Debris".

It already has happened. But thankfully has been pulled.

[TeleStraightShooter]

Sick bastards on EBay
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=space+shuttle+columbia+debris

Pulled by EBay

[McGruff]

SAMs in Texas. Does Alex Jones know about this? [/sarcasm]

[11B3]

All modern fighters can be punched out of at Mach 1+. Even the early MiG-21s were capable of it. But you're definitely correct - that wind blast would be tremendous. (That's one of the reasons for that ring you see above the pilot's head in a fighter. Prior to eject, that secures the head and neck so the wind doesn't twist it.)

150 kts combat AGL is about the limit for ground troops to deploy, right? (HALO being much different due to the altitude.)

[FITZ]

There will be rioting in the streets IF it is learned that islamic or even non-islamic illegals were working in or around the launch crew/site.

With a flight manned with Americans, an Israeli, and an Indian, they couldn't have allowed Muslims at the controls.

[Tall_Texan]

Wow. That was fast.

There are indeed a lot of sick folks out there who only care about making money.

Next prediction: Anti-war folks will portray this as a "sign" that we shouldn't proceed to attack Iraq.

[babygene]

Although the Islamic’s do not have a such a missile (note that they didn't need one for the WTC), Sabotage is certainly within there capability...

[theFIRMbss]

>The nly thing that may have been capable would be the new "Star Wars" stuff.

I believe there are
only four "categories"
of tin foil foul play:

Sabotage on board;
some foreign, high altitude
missles; some foreign

black ops near-space plane;
some foreign black ops high tech
energy weapon.

If it was foul play,
I don't think our government
would say publicly,

because I don't think
anybody would admit
that we have a foe

with the resources
to accomplish any of
those general things...

[Steel Wolf]

150 kts is the recommended maximum for static line jumps, due to the fact that you can blow out panels in the chutes, tear suspension lines, and a variety of things you don't want to happen with only 1,200 to 800 feet to the ground.

HALO depends on the altitude, but they have less wind resistance up there. Off the top of my head, I think they jump from 8,000 to 30,000 feet, depending on the aircraft.

I know that the fighter pilots can eject at those speeds, but they are encased in the seat and their flight suits (which aid in them resisting pressure and high Gs) and they are secured till they land. Even with all that protection, it can't feel good.

For the shuttle crew to use their chutes, they'd have to literally get to an opening, and jump out fully exposed. I've never jumped from anything like 200,000 feet, but I'd assume that they'd fall for quite a ways before the atmosphere would even be dense enough for the chute to work. They'd need oxygen, and probably some heat shielding, or they'd wouldn't make it. At 4000 mph, any significant air resistance could cause broken bones, fatal whiplash, or who knows what.

Catch 22, there. If the air resistance doesn't kill you, the fall to denser atmosphere will.

[TomB]

The point remains. It would be virtually impossible to track.

[GOP_1900AD]

SAMs, yeah, probably not. However, there are other potential means. It would be as simple as one or more very low orbiting satellites dropping ball bearings at the wrong place and wrong time. For example, 100 miles over the Pacific Ocean. Shuttle hits a cloud of them at Mach 2.5 or faster. Little holes and damage to control surfaces and thruster nozzles. The PRC are apparently fascinated with such concepts. Google on it and see for yourselves.And then, there is good old sabotage. Heard about the bit of foam "falling off?" I wonder how many GRU, ErBu, ISI, AQ and other vermin are moles within NASA?

[GOP_1900AD]

Plus, it's Chinese New Year.

[swarthyguy]

When is the Chinese New Year's Day in Year 2003?
February 1, 2003. It was the first day in the Year of the Horse.
It is Year 4700 by Chinese calendar.

[GOP_1900AD]

What about a cloud of ball bearings over the Pacific. Think it couldn't happen? Think of Sun-Tzu and "Unlimited Warfare." Think of large nation states, not "rogues" or "terrorists."

[GOP_1900AD]

Chinese New Year bump. Year of the Ram, a year of some degree of Sun-Tzu characteristics.

[Malichi]

My thoughts exactly. This is the type of Fourth Generation Warfare that the Acolytes have been telling us was going to start happening. I, and yeah you can call me a tin-foiler, think that the cause of this was a computer failure caused by last weekend's worldwide worm attack. Confuse your enemy with an attack seemingly on the finacial sector and then go after the real target. Heck, moving at that speed, it wouldn't take much degree change in up or down angle to wreck havoc.
TAW