Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

No SAM Capable of Hitting SHuttle
FAS Website ^ | 6-30-2000 | Federation of American Scientists

Posted on 02/01/2003 10:13:41 AM PST by Basilides

S-300V SA-12A GLADIATOR and SA-12B GIANT HQ-18 The S-300V (SA-12) low-to-high Altitude, tactical surface to air missile system also has anti-ballistic missile capabilities. The HQ-18 reportedly the designation of a Chinese copy of the Russian S300V, though the details of this program remain rather conjectural. In early 1996 Russia astounded the United States Army by marketing the Russian SA-12 surface-to-air missile system in the UAE in direct competition with the United States Army's Patriot system. Rosvooruzheniye offered the UAE the highest-quality Russian strategic air defense system, the SA-12 Gladiator, as an alternative to the Patriot at half the cost. The offer also included forgiveness of some of Russia's debt to the UAE. The S-300V consists of:

9M82 SA-12b GIANT missile 9M83 SA-12a GLADIATOR missile 9A82 SA-12b GIANT TELAR 9A93 SA-12a GLADIATOR TELAR 9A84 GIANT Launcher/Loader Vehicle (LLV) 9A85 GLADIATOR Launcher/Loader Vehicle (LLV) 9S15 BILL BOARD Surveillance Radar system 9S19 HIGH SCREEN Sector Radar system 9S32 GRILL PAN Guidance Radar system 9S457 Command Station

The 9M83 SA-12a GLADIATOR is a dual-role anti-missile and anti-aircraft missile with a maximum range between 75 and 90 km.

The 9M82 SA-12b GIANT missile, configured primarily for the ATBM role, is a longer range system [maximum range between 100 and 200 km] with a longer fuselage with larger solid-fuel motor. The 9A82 SA-12b GIANT and 9A93 SA-12a GLADIATOR TELAR vehicles are similar, though the 9A83-1 carries four 9M83 SA-12a GLADIATOR missiles, whereas the 9A82 carries only two 9M82 SA-12b GIANT missiles. The configuration of the vehicles command radar is also different. On the 9A83-1 the radar is mounted on a folding mast providing 360º coverage in azimuth and full hemispheric coverage in elevation. The radar on the 9M82 TELAR is mounted in a semi-fixed position over the cab, providing 90º coverage on either side in azimuth and 110º in elevation. The TELARs are not capable of autonomous engagements, requiring the support of the GRILL PAN radar.

The 9S457-1 Command Post Vehicle is the command and control vehicle for the SA-12 system, which is supported by the BILL BOARD A surveillance radar and the HIGH SCREEN sector radar. The CPV and its associated radars can detect up to 200 targets, track as many as 70 targets and designate 24 of the targets to the brigade's four GRILL PAN radar systems for engagement by the SA-12a and SA-12b TELARs.

The BILL BOARD A radar provides general surveillance, with the antenna rotating every 6-12 seconds. The radar, which can detect up to 200 targets, provides target coverage of 0-55º in elevation and 10-250 km in range with an accuracy is 30-35 min of arc in azimuth and 250 m in range. and.

The HIGH SCREEN sector radar supporst the ATBM role, providing surveillance of anticipated azimuths of threat missiles. The radar is switches to a tracking mode when high speed targets are detected, automatically transmiting the trajectory parameters to the Command Post Vehicle. The CPV prioritizes the threat and instructs the HIGH SCREEN radar to track specific missiles, with the maximum being 16 simultaneous targets.

The GRILL PAN radar system controls the battery's launcher vehicles (TELARs and LLVs). It can simultaneously track up to 12 targets and control up to six missiles against these targets The radar can acquire targets with a radar cross-section of 2m2 at a range of 150 km in manual mode and 140 km in automatic mode. The GRILL PAN tracks targets assigned to it by the CP while simultaneously maintaining a horizon search for new targets.

The LLVs (9A85 GLADIATOR and 9A83 GLADIATOR) resemble normal TELARs, but with a loading crane rather than command radars. While the primary role of the LLV is to replenish the TELARs, they can also erecting and launch missiles if needed, though they are dependent on the use of command radars from neighboring TELARs.

Specifications

SA-12a Range, (km) 6-75 km Altitude, (m) 25 km Basic load on vehicle 4 missiles on launcher Detection range, km Reaction time, sec Speed 1.7 km./sec Reload time Warhead 150 kg, HE Command guidance Combined, inertial with semi-active self-guidance Radar(s) GRILL PAN missile guidance radar, BILL BOARD surveillance radar, HIGH SCREEN sector scan radar Emplace/displace time (min) 5 Support vehicles TELAR, Transloader, command post Chassis Variations of the MT-T chassis are used for the launch vehicle, loader-launcher vehicle, missile guidance station, command post vehicle, and the radars.

Specifications

SA-12b Range, (km) 13-100 km Altitude, (m) 1-30 km Basic load on vehicle 2 missiles on launcher Detection range, km Reaction time, sec Speed 2.4 km./sec. Reload time Warhead 150 kg, HE Command guidance Combined, inertial with semi-active self-guidance Radar(s) GRILL PAN missile guidance radar, BILL BOARD surveillance radar, HIGH SCREEN sector scan radar Emplace/displace time (min) 5 Support vehicles TELAR, Transloader, command post Chassis Variations of the MT-T chassis are used for the launch vehicle, loader-launcher vehicle, missile guidance station, command post vehicle, and the radars.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: columbiatragedy; feb12003; nasa; sam; shuttle; spaceshuttle; sts107; surfacetoairmissle; tinfoil
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-50 next last
To: Basilides
Well, this thread made me go out and get TWO ROLLS of foil, and I promptly made them into a very thick helmet.....And then I remembered the article.

Pre-9/11, I remember reading an article here in FR that dealt with China's "asymmetric warfare" ideas. One of those ideas was to launch payloads into near earth orbit carrying small mines that would attach themselves to our space hardware. (They specifically mentioned the GPS sats and the KH-11s.) These space mines would have been "command detonated".

Note: China just had their big test run for their manned program not very long ago. It supposedly carried scientific payload, but who really knows. What was it's orbiting altitutde? The Chinese would love to see our space program down the toilet when theirs is ramping up - just like economies.

It may be foil, but they are indeed our true enemy. Even more so than the Russians. After all, Slick made sure they had all the goods to take us down.
21 posted on 02/01/2003 10:43:04 AM PST by 11B3 (Take off the head of the Dragon. The body will follow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tall_Texan
True.

Sick.

On second thought, should that happen, the vultures would be anounncing to the world they are commiting a crime by trying to sell something that is not theirs,
-and-
hawking evidence of a poss crime scene.........

22 posted on 02/01/2003 10:45:28 AM PST by TeleStraightShooter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Basilides
I've been jumping out of military jet aircraft for years, and I can feel the difference between every 20 knots of increased speed. The hardest I've ever felt seemed like a full body punch, and that was at a tiny tiny fraction of Mach 6. I've never seen the numbers, I can't imagine anyone even surviving an unshielded bail out at Mach 1. It would be like being struck by an invisbile wrecking ball at full swing.
23 posted on 02/01/2003 10:45:40 AM PST by Steel Wolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: isthisnickcool; Basilides
Here is one for the tin foilers. The nly thing that may have been capable would be the new "Star Wars" stuff.

If terrorists were able to shoot it down at that level and speed, well, then...they will win.

But that isn't the case.

24 posted on 02/01/2003 10:46:41 AM PST by tallhappy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Tall_Texan
But two things I'll safely predict. First, a good many items of junk will be reported as fallen Columbia debris. Second, within a week somebody on E-Bay will try offering that junk as "Space Shuttle Debris".

It already has happened. But thankfully has been pulled.

25 posted on 02/01/2003 10:48:25 AM PST by ladyinred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Tall_Texan
Sick bastards on EBay
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=space+shuttle+columbia+debris

Pulled by EBay

26 posted on 02/01/2003 10:48:52 AM PST by TeleStraightShooter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Basilides
SAMs in Texas. Does Alex Jones know about this? [/sarcasm]
27 posted on 02/01/2003 10:51:15 AM PST by McGruff (It's a sad day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Steel Wolf
All modern fighters can be punched out of at Mach 1+. Even the early MiG-21s were capable of it. But you're definitely correct - that wind blast would be tremendous. (That's one of the reasons for that ring you see above the pilot's head in a fighter. Prior to eject, that secures the head and neck so the wind doesn't twist it.)

150 kts combat AGL is about the limit for ground troops to deploy, right? (HALO being much different due to the altitude.)
28 posted on 02/01/2003 10:52:56 AM PST by 11B3 (Take off the head of the Dragon. The body will follow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Let's Roll
There will be rioting in the streets IF it is learned that islamic or even non-islamic illegals were working in or around the launch crew/site.

With a flight manned with Americans, an Israeli, and an Indian, they couldn't have allowed Muslims at the controls.

29 posted on 02/01/2003 10:53:08 AM PST by FITZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: TeleStraightShooter; ladyinred
Wow. That was fast.

There are indeed a lot of sick folks out there who only care about making money.

Next prediction: Anti-war folks will portray this as a "sign" that we shouldn't proceed to attack Iraq.

30 posted on 02/01/2003 11:00:24 AM PST by Tall_Texan (Where liberals lead, misery follows.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Brett66
Although the Islamic’s do not have a such a missile (note that they didn't need one for the WTC), Sabotage is certainly within there capability...
31 posted on 02/01/2003 11:02:41 AM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: isthisnickcool
>The nly thing that may have been capable would be the new "Star Wars" stuff.

I believe there are
only four "categories"
of tin foil foul play:

Sabotage on board;
some foreign, high altitude
missles; some foreign

black ops near-space plane;
some foreign black ops high tech
energy weapon.

If it was foul play,
I don't think our government
would say publicly,

because I don't think
anybody would admit
that we have a foe

with the resources
to accomplish any of
those general things...

32 posted on 02/01/2003 11:03:07 AM PST by theFIRMbss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 11B3
150 kts is the recommended maximum for static line jumps, due to the fact that you can blow out panels in the chutes, tear suspension lines, and a variety of things you don't want to happen with only 1,200 to 800 feet to the ground.

HALO depends on the altitude, but they have less wind resistance up there. Off the top of my head, I think they jump from 8,000 to 30,000 feet, depending on the aircraft.

I know that the fighter pilots can eject at those speeds, but they are encased in the seat and their flight suits (which aid in them resisting pressure and high Gs) and they are secured till they land. Even with all that protection, it can't feel good.

For the shuttle crew to use their chutes, they'd have to literally get to an opening, and jump out fully exposed. I've never jumped from anything like 200,000 feet, but I'd assume that they'd fall for quite a ways before the atmosphere would even be dense enough for the chute to work. They'd need oxygen, and probably some heat shielding, or they'd wouldn't make it. At 4000 mph, any significant air resistance could cause broken bones, fatal whiplash, or who knows what.

Catch 22, there. If the air resistance doesn't kill you, the fall to denser atmosphere will.

33 posted on 02/01/2003 11:11:45 AM PST by Steel Wolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Basilides
The point remains. It would be virtually impossible to track.
34 posted on 02/01/2003 11:29:48 AM PST by TomB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Basilides; lavaroise; swarthyguy; Jeff Head; Orion78; Noswad
SAMs, yeah, probably not. However, there are other potential means. It would be as simple as one or more very low orbiting satellites dropping ball bearings at the wrong place and wrong time. For example, 100 miles over the Pacific Ocean. Shuttle hits a cloud of them at Mach 2.5 or faster. Little holes and damage to control surfaces and thruster nozzles. The PRC are apparently fascinated with such concepts. Google on it and see for yourselves.And then, there is good old sabotage. Heard about the bit of foam "falling off?" I wonder how many GRU, ErBu, ISI, AQ and other vermin are moles within NASA?
35 posted on 02/01/2003 11:51:22 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GunRunner
Plus, it's Chinese New Year.
36 posted on 02/01/2003 11:52:55 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: belmont_mark
When is the Chinese New Year's Day in Year 2003?
February 1, 2003. It was the first day in the Year of the Horse.
It is Year 4700 by Chinese calendar.
37 posted on 02/01/2003 11:54:52 AM PST by swarthyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Tall_Texan
What about a cloud of ball bearings over the Pacific. Think it couldn't happen? Think of Sun-Tzu and "Unlimited Warfare." Think of large nation states, not "rogues" or "terrorists."
38 posted on 02/01/2003 11:55:12 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: 11B3
Chinese New Year bump. Year of the Ram, a year of some degree of Sun-Tzu characteristics.
39 posted on 02/01/2003 11:57:54 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: belmont_mark
My thoughts exactly. This is the type of Fourth Generation Warfare that the Acolytes have been telling us was going to start happening. I, and yeah you can call me a tin-foiler, think that the cause of this was a computer failure caused by last weekend's worldwide worm attack. Confuse your enemy with an attack seemingly on the finacial sector and then go after the real target. Heck, moving at that speed, it wouldn't take much degree change in up or down angle to wreck havoc.
TAW
40 posted on 02/01/2003 12:05:37 PM PST by Malichi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-50 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson