The Fall of the Roman Empire Revisited: Sidonius Apollinaris and His Crisis of Identity

Published by the Corcoran Department of History at the University of Virginia. ^ | 2-1-03 (Volume Thirty-Seven) | By Eric J. Goldberg

[Keme]

"They understood that the Balkans, unlike the Levant, Egypt, and North Africa, would stay Christian under Turkish rule."

With all due respect, that's a ridiculous statement. You're comparing 400 years under the decaying Ottomans with a free & strong Europe (& Russia) behind you to 1400 years of muslim rule including islam at its most vigorous "golden age"?

[WaterDragon]

The first time I read Gibbon I had no idea his information was often incorrect. While it is a valuable work, it is not entirely reliable history.

[steve-b]

On the contrary, it's precisely because the Orthodox religious establishment knew that Islam was no longer what it had been during the 6th-7th centuries that they were willing to take their chances with the Turks rather than knuckle under in their ongoing battle with the Vatican.

[Tokhtamish]

With all due respect the Ottoman Empire that twice besieged Vienna was not in the least decaying until the Industrial Revolution.

By 1000 Egypt and the Levant were Muslim. But aside from the Bozniaks Islam took no root in the Balkans.

[Keme]

This is my first real online discussion, so I hope I don't sound in any way disrespectful in my reply.

1. The Turks did not have the same religious zeal as the Arabs & arguably did not rule nearly as long or as brutal (for the most part). Your point is well taken, but the Turks bit off more then they could chew with the siege of Vienna, they were on the defensive since then.

2. The Balkans were the furthest reach of Turkish rule in Europe, they were not in the very heart of the beast, so to speak, as the Middle East.

3. The Slavs had kindoms, however meager they may have been at the time, with armies. Because the Christians of the ME were completely under Byzantine control, they had no such self government or means of self defense. Their fate was tied to that of the Empire.

4. In spite of everything, Egypt stayed majority Christian for several hundred years. The gradual conversion was a slow & brutal one. I don't know enough to speak about the Levant. Even today after 1400 years, some estimates have the Christians numbering 15 to possibly 20% of the population in Egypt, this is with having many, MANY fewer children over many generations. Who knows what might have been.

Lastly, let me say it's always with great pride when I read of how the Slavs (& Greeks) freed themselves from the Turks. Maybe because of the many sins of the ME Christians, he saw fit to keep us under this yoke. But, I think your comparison is not an accurate one. Always thank God for your freedom, but don't boast in it.

Regards.

[Countyline]

Thanks for this post .... new perspective and an interesting one.

A.J. being a student of the Caesars and history, perhaps you will like this .

[headsonpikes]

Sure, put me on your ping list, Leonidas.

;^)

[SunkenCiv]

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[SunkenCiv]

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