Hillary's Dream Will Be Your Nightmare, A Canadian Warns [re:socialized health care]

CNSNews.com ^ | January 24, 2003 | Rachel Marsden

[Stand Watch Listen]

Walk up to a Canadian and ask him what sets his country apart from the USA, and he'll likely reply with one of five things: Gun control; a less hawkish, more diplomatic approach to world affairs; a collective preoccupation with adverse weather patterns; a burning passion for hockey; and a socialized health care system.

Canada's health care system is its touchstone. Canadians are literally brainwashed into believing that Canada wouldn't be the great country it is without its health care program. According to Canadian lore, America is full of people who are paying through the eyeteeth for medical treatment, and if you're not wealthy, you either don't get the treatment you need, or you declare bankruptcy.

Being a Canadian myself, I grew up hearing all about these nightmarish tales of the "evil American health care system". All the while, I was having to go to the doctor three days in a row, only to be turned away each time because the doctor had seen his maximum allowable government-funded quota of patients for the day.

In my home province of British Columbia, 24 people died in one year while waiting for heart surgery. On the other side of the country, kids in desperate need of heart surgery at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto were being sent home. At Moncton Hospital in New Brunswick, patients were being kept in hallways and closets because of a lack of beds. In some cases, ambulance workers spoke of how they would drive dying patients from one emergency room to another in search of available beds or adequate equipment.

Despite all these horror stories, Canadians somehow remain convinced that medical care in Canada is preferable to that in the US. The reality is that socialized medicine is an abysmal failure. Under this system, everyone is supposed to receive equal access to health care, but what really ends up happening is that no one receives any care at all. But at least we're all in the SAME sinking boat, eh?

Under the Canadian system, anyone who wants to escape this disaster of Titanic proportions has no choice but to look elsewhere for health care. This, in effect, creates the two-tier system of which Canadians are so deathly afraid. Those with money are going to the USA for treatment while everyone else is stuck dealing with the inexpensive - but totally ineffective - Canadian system.

Note to Hillary Clinton and others like her who want to bring socialized health care to the USA: When people in a country that has such a program are turning to one that doesn't in order to get the treatment they require, that should be a bit of a hint for you.

A citizen of the USA is twice as likely to have open heart surgery as a Canadian. Seattle, Washington--with a population of roughly half a million people--has more CAT scanners than the entire province of British Columbia, which has a population of 3 million.

There are more MRI scanners in Washington state than in all of Canada. Why such a shortage of diagnostic equipment? Because in Canada, there is only one, single, giant "HMO," and it's run by the government.

The government decides where to allocate resources and where to cut costs. And if you don't like your government-run HMO in Canada, there are no competing HMOs you can turn to in order to obtain better treatment. The only alternatives you have are to whine and complain, or to fork out some money to get treatment in the USA.

Hillary's dream is to have a socialized health care system in the USA, along with a Patient's Bill of Rights that would allow for people to sue their HMO. What you'd effectively have then is people suing the government for not providing them with the care they require.

I hope Hillary has borrowed Al Gore's "lock box" to save up those pennies, because if Canada's socialized health system is any indication, she'd better get ready for the mother of all class action suits against her proposed "government-run HMO."

(Rachel Marsden is a director of the Free Congress Foundation.)

Free Congress Foundation

[Allan]

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[Snowyman]

If canadians had to pay the "real" cost of the drugs,

The real cost of drugs being the highest in the world giving the pharmaceutical industry an 18.6% profit while all other companies averaged 4.9%. I'll say it real slow. Don't be foolish. Canadians pay for their own drugs unless they qualify for a program like your Medicaid and Medicare drug programs.

Americans are not subsidizing anyone's health care system save , maybe, their own.

[sausageseller]

Your socialism is showing!

What does it matter what a companys profits are?

Don't be foolish. Canadians pay for their own drugs unless they qualify for a program like your Medicaid and Medicare drug programs.

And who sets the price?

Typical liberal tactic. ie. Hide the truth!

Also the canadians are benefiting from the American tax payer funded research!

Can't wait for the US to jail all the perscription drug runners!

And some hefty lawsuits against the canadian companies that are the accomplices.

[Snowyman]

Your socialism is showing! What does it matter what a companys profits are?

So, you don't dicker for a better price and and if you do that makes you a socialist. And if you don't dicker and haggle for the best price that makes you a capitalist. Or the Capitalists' fondest dream?

Also the canadians are benefiting from the American tax payer funded research!

Heck, why stop at Canada? Everyone in the world is paying less than Americans are. Never mind that all drug research is not done in the USA. It never has been.

Can't wait for the US to jail all the perscription drug runners!

Sure why not. Lock up all those druggies. Special care should be taken when handling the blue haired ones. They'll either try and scratch your eyes out, or drop dead from the shock of being handcuffed.

[sausageseller]

Your socialism is showing! What does it matter what a companys profits are? So, you don't dicker for a better price and and if you do that makes you a socialist. And if you don't dicker and haggle for the best price that makes you a capitalist. Or the Capitalists' fondest dream?

SS. You hold up profits as somthing wrong. This isn't about dickering. That is what makes you a socialist. Also the canadians are benefiting from the American tax payer funded research!

Heck, why stop at Canada? Everyone in the world is paying less than Americans are. Never mind that all drug research is not done in the USA. It never has been.

SS. It is about US taxpayer funded research and how canadians (and the world) benefit from it. The US also gives more free life saving drugs to the world than ALL other countries combined!Americans are paying higher prices to Canadas' and the WORLDS benefit and you are just another ungrateful lib!

Can't wait for the US to jail all the perscription drug runners! Sure why not. Lock up all those druggies. Special care should be taken when handling the blue haired ones. They'll either try and scratch your eyes out, or drop dead from the shock of being handcuffed.

SS So if your old, you can break the law? Your arguements are ASSNINE!

[Mamzelle]

re: Maybe somebody should look more carefully into spending all that money on expensive equipment of questionable utility. )))

You are enjoying American-made tech at moderate costs in large part because American hospitals have so many of these gadgets. Volume in production drives down your costs. Because we have so many, you can afford to have at least a couple between the cracks in the ice floes.

[Snowyman]

It is about US taxpayer funded research and how canadians (and the world) benefit from it.

It's about allowing the pharmaceutical companies to benefit from excessive profit , no one else. Government funding pharmaceutical company research . Sounds socialist, maybe worse.

The US also gives more free life saving drugs to the world

Sure, free samples in doctors'offices. Many third world countries can't afford and don't have prescription drugs available .

all the prescription drug runners

This maybe a bit of a shock to you but Americans buying prescription drugs in Canada is not illegal. They're not breaking any law .

So far you've managed to call me a socialist and an ungrateful lib. I'm neither but I am realistic enough to know the American drug consumer is over prescribed and is being over charged. Any Drug company advocate would know that. But never admit it.

[CdMGuy]

It is interesing that you like your system just fine. I wouldn't have known it from our vacation in Victoria several years ago. My wife and I had just toured the provincial parliament building. When we came outside, there were several hundred demonstrators on the lawn. A speakers podium, microphone, cameras, etc. had been set up. The demonstrators were campaigning to increase the number of radiation machines on Vancouver Island (not to be confused with the City of Vancouver). It seems that on the entire island, there were only two old radiation machines to treat cancer patients. The wait for these machines was 6 months. Therefore, people in need of treatment on the island of Vancouver, which contains the provincial capital of Victoria, had to take a ferry to the City of Vancouver. What cancer patient can wait 6 months for treatment? What would be a moring trip to a treatment center in the US would take two days in Canada. Considering the number of treatments normally required, the patients would have to set up residence in Vancouver for the duration of their treatment. Even a number of local politicians were speaking out about this mess. So much for your great Canadian health care system. If it is so great, then why are the US border city health centers full of Canadians? Wouldn't it be the other way around? What amazes me is the willingness of most Canadians to put up with their government murdering them.

[timestax]

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[sausageseller]

It is about US taxpayer funded research and how canadians (and the world) benefit from it. It's about allowing the pharmaceutical companies to benefit from excessive profit , no one else.

SS. Ever heard of share holders or even employees? I live near Indianapolis, Indiana home of Eli Lilly. We see those exessive profits all over our state. So your ignorance of what happens to those "exessive' profits is evident. Even if you do belive they are 'exessive" they just don't disappear into some black hole.

Government funding pharmaceutical company research . Sounds socialist, maybe worse.

SS.Allowing? Your government not "allowing" them? Your goverment sets the drug prices. With your idea of dickering. Your government is doing it and you advocate it! And you think your not a socialist? Like I said, assnine arguements. The US also gives more free life saving drugs to the world Sure, free samples in doctors'offices. Many third world countries can't afford and don't have prescription drugs available .,p. SS.More ignorance.

all the prescription drug runners This maybe a bit of a shock to you but Americans buying prescription drugs in Canada is not illegal. They're not breaking any law .

SS. For export back to US? Tell me all about Canadian export law and US import law. So far you've managed to call me a socialist and an ungrateful lib. I'm neither but I am realistic enough to know the American drug consumer is over prescribed and is being over charged. Any Drug company advocate would know that. But never admit it.

SS. You are a socialist and don't have the guts to admit it. Please tell me where I stated drugs are not over prescribed or where we are being overcharged for them.

[Snowyman]

For export back to US?

Obviously you're not interested in facts. The US is not the only country to research , manufacture or export drugs, brand or generic. Thousands of US citizens obtain drugs in Canada and if ,as you insist , that is illegal then stop it. But your government hasn't . And don't plan to. WHY? Never mind. A fact. It's not illegal.

Please tell me where I stated drugs are not over prescribed or where we are being overcharged for them.

You didn't . I said Americans are. And Americans are . btw Assnine is spelt asinine. At least get something right.

[Eva]

I think that what the author means is that there are twice as many heart surgeries perfomed here. Maybe that is because our cardiac wards are full of Canadians who come here for treatment.

[Snowyman]

And maybe it's not. One of the problems with discussing health care in Canada is that each province does it's own thing and consequently general criticisms are misleading. In Ontario several different hospitals , usually affiliated with a University specialize. If I had kidney problem ,I think it is University Hospital in London , if I had a heart problem I'd go here,
http://www.ottawaheart.ca/hcwhatisuohi.htm

[Eva]

In British Columbia, the wait to see a doctor is so long that many, who can afford it, come to the US. I knew a boy who was made to wait six months for knee surgery and missed his whole senior basketball season. I have heard of people who were told that they have terminal cancer having to wait six months to see an oncologist. Perhaps Ontario has better health services, it's not unusual to see Leftist elites taking care of themselves first. It happens in the US all the time.

[Snowyman]

Leftist elites taking care of themselves first

I really don't know how realistic that is.

I know several people, everything from knee replacement, hip replacement , eye cataracts and cancer treatment. None of whom have had to wait. I know one old guy, (I think he's 81 or 82) who has total kidney failure, on dialysis 3 times a week, has had a leg removed because of diabetes, has an on going continual series of small heart failures , has a pace maker which kick starts him when he has a failure, who has never had to wait for anything. And he is not a liberal and being a retired truck driver is hardly an elite of any kind. And he lives in Ottawa.

Maybe in BC?

[Eva]

That's what I was saying the leftist in Ontario have all the services they need, while BC goes wanting. It is no wonder British Columbian feel that they would be better served being annexed to the US.

[Snowyman]

No. All that Ottawa does is enforce the Canada health Act and provide funding , when they remember to. Each province is independent of the others when it comes to programing their health care. Even then, bureaucrats have no medical say. Each hospital has it's own administration. Ontario has a Conservative government. BC just moving off a NDP one. That may be a clue to BC's problems.