U.S. DEFENCE SECRETARY: GERMANY AND FRANCE ARE ``OLD EUROPE''

DeutschePress via Bloomberg, no url | 1/22/3

[Dog Gone]

Next week at the UN will be very interesting.

[bert]

....Leave it to Rummy to state the truth.....

I looks like he has been reading my posts. W and the guys at the GCC are turning the world upside down. The new rules mean that everything the old guys know will be obsolete because all the rules have been changed.

The game is called TEGWAR... The Exciting game without any rules. You make them up as you go along and then codify once the dust begins to settle. Europe will suffer as the GCC including the newly absorbed Iraq with its Palistinian labor force comes on line with shiny new industrial plants using the home grown petrochemical feed stocks.

[Nick Danger]

By my calculations, France and Germany have less than two weeks in which to convince millions of Americans to not only change their minds, but to change their minds with such force that they become anti-war activists.

I wonder if the French and German elites are as dumb as our own Democrats. They read in the New York Times (or the Times-owned IHT) about all these "peace marches" and how big they were, and they think that's public opinion in the U.S.

[montag813]

I don't think you understand what it's like to live in a totalitarian country, and how difficult that kind of government is to overthrow.

Tell that to the family of the (former) Shah of Iran.

[The Great Satan]

"The centre of gravity is shifting to the east," he said. "Germany has been a problem, France has been a problem. But when you look at vast numbers of other countries, they are not with France and Germany on this. They are with the United States."

Rummy is The Man, alright! Gerhard will have a conniption fit. Somebody pass the smelling salts to Jacques.

[The Great Satan]

Out with the old, in with the new. That's what I always say.

[Southack]

"The game is called TEGWAR... The Exciting game without any rules. You make them up as you go along and then codify once the dust begins to settle."

The old rules were along the lines of "Everyone acts in the best interests of the global economy such that a rising tide lifts all boats".

The new rules are along the lines of "Everyone acts in the best interests of their own nations, such that your own nation is in the best position that it can be in".

Under the old rules, the end-game goal was a massive, One-World Government.

Under the new rules, nationalism will replace globalism. Eventually, NATO, the EU, the UN, and various other global entities will be supplanted, surpassed in importance by more temporary, superficial alliances and stronger national borders.

[blam]

I just read an article about Zimbabwe being a failed State, are France and Germany next in line?

[Tokhtamish]

What is interesting is how the French and Germans have burned their bridges in another respect.

Powell staked his credibility on persuading Bush to go to the UN. He doubtless did this on the assurances of French support for the US if we did so. And they played him. They played him completely. They burned him like toast. His "frank exchange of views" was his fury at having been tricked and used.

Now there is no one around Bush who will pay any attention to anything the French and Germans have to say.

[NormsRevenge]

Wed Jan 22, 5:21 PM ET

French President Jacques Chirac (R) grips German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on the arm during a joint press conference in Paris to mark the 40th anniversary of the Elysee Treaty of French and German friendship January 22, 2003. Chirac and Schroeder declared their resistance to military action against Iraq, saying that U.N. inspectors scouring Iraq for weapons of mass destruction needed more time to complete their work. (Xavier Lhospice/Reuters)

[Cicero]

At the present time, the UN is charged with "holding the oil in trust for the Iraqi people."

They have, in fact, been very slow in doling it out. They have kept about $10 billion in their coffers, and presumably are using the income from this enormous fund to beef up their expense accounts.

If the US takes custody of the oil money, it will have a perfect right to defray expenses of the war and occupation off the top and give the net proceeds to the Iraqi people. And presumably they will also have some say about which oil companies are involved.

[CharlesThe Hammer]

So Help me out here about this Franco-Prussian bloc:
1. France is the EU country with the largest volume of trade with Iraq,$1.5 Billion, Most of this through FINA/Elf.
2. France's position in EU and the U.N. Security Council fossilize its former relevance as a great power, thus its passion for both bureaucracies.
3. France just excercized "unilateral" military action in the Ivory Coast.
4. France's status as a sovereign state was rescued becoming a German province by Anglo-American "unilateral action".
5. Germany benefitted from American "unilateral" largesse by dint of the Marshall Plan, the Berlin Airlift, and a military umbrella that shielded them throughout the Cold War unto this very day.
6. German citizens are currently on trial for supplying technical assistance in the fabrication of an Iraqi "supergun".
Wow, that takes brass! I hope Rummy is right. The concept of European nationhood needs a shot in the arm. France is too cowardly and Germany is too guilty to do it. They prefer the cosmopolitan mega blob because, under EU or UN aegis, they can evade responsibility. The newly liberated eastern countries are our best hope.

[NativeNewYorker]

Imus this morning wanted to know why we just don't bomb France.

[montag813]

Sounds like we owe them several times over vs. them oweing us. And you wonder why the people have allowed Saddam to stay in power....beats being killed when your "friends" don't follow up on their promises.

Somehow the people of Iran rose up to overthrow a regime we actually supported. No one needed to be our great protector to get rid of the British. What a strange world you see where people need "promises" and protection from others to give them the backbone to fight for their freedom. I a trying to imagine your version of "Braveheart" with Wallace waiting for the Spanish to send troops before taking on the Brits.

[Helms]

Simply stated, this is and EU and UN move against the US.

USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,USA vs. EU/UN,

[montag813]

Due to the distrust and animosity that exists between these factions, I imagine there's a fear of what would happen when Saddam falls and then the factions all go at each other in a power grab to succeed him.

Well taken. The main issue is that we want the Iraqis in Exile to rule and the Saudis don't. The factional issue was only solved in Afganistan by Western recognition, and may not be solvable at all in Iraq until Saddam is dead.

[montag813]

Ihr seid dabei euch zu dem zu entwickeln was wir eins waren. Und euer Hitler ist Bush. Aber ihr werdet auch lernen was wir gelernt haben, aber ich wünschte das würde nicht passieren.

How dare you call Bush "our Hitler", you Nazi dog. I notice you dont have the balls to post your diatribe in English. Nice work, typical of the cowardice we have come to expect from Europe. You Germans (and French) just can't handle the fact that you are irrelevant to today's world. As Rumsfeld has said, Germany and France represent a fossilized "old Europe", and will be rightly ignored. It is those two nations which were responsible for the majority of the blood and the deaths in the last century, and were partners in the Holocaust. The sweet justice is that your own Holocaust is coming, thanks to the appeasement of your vast Muslim hordes. I hope you enjoy what freedoms you have left. They will swiftly vanish when Sharia law is established. And don't expect us to come to your aid this time. We will be too busy laughing.