Church's sign has Muslims outraged -''Jesus Forbade Murder. Muhammad Approved Murder. Surah 8:65.''

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[chance33_98]

Church's sign has Muslims outraged

Florida pastor says criticism of Islam is legal and fair

Associated Press Friday, January 17, 2003

Jacksonville --- The Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida is calling on state religious leaders to repudiate a Jacksonville Baptist church's roadside sign the group claims is anti-Muslim.

The sign outside the First Conservative Baptist Church in Jacksonville's Mandarin area reads: ''Jesus Forbade Murder. Matthew 26:52. Muhammad Approved Murder. Surah 8:65.''

Altaf Ali, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida, said his organization attempted to talk with the Baptist church's officials about the sign, but were rebuffed with belligerent language.

''All Americans must band together to condemn hate speech designed to divide our nation along religious and ethnic lines,'' Ali said. ''Any attempt to marginalize or vilify one religious community is an attack on all people of faith.''

The church's pastor, the Rev. Gene Youngblood, who also leads the Conservative Theological Society and Conservative Christian Academy, said he has been using the marquee-type sign to express the church's opinion for 15 years and has no plans to remove the message.

''First and foremost, are we not entitled to freedom of speech?'' Youngblood said.

Youngblood, who said he is an expert on world religions, said he had been threatened and his property vandalized. He said he has filed 13 police reports since July.

Youngblood said his church would issue a formal statement later.

Iman Zaid Malik, spiritual leader of the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida, said some Christian friends brought the offensive sign to his attention.

''Misinformation must be rejected by all people of conscience,'' Malik said. ''This shows that the vast majority of Americans reject hate and seek a society where good overcomes the evil.''

Malik said the Quran verse indicates that those who believe and are steadfast in battle will overcome much larger armies. It is not an endorsement of murder, he said.

The verse reads: ''O Prophet [Muhammad]! Inspire the believers to conquer all fear of death when fighting, [so that] if there be twenty of you who are patient in adversity, they might overcome two hundred; and if there be one hundred of you, they might overcome one-thousand of those bent on denying the truth, because they are people who cannot grasp it.''

The Council on American-Islamic Relations said the Quran also states, ''whoever murders a person . . . it will be as if he killed all mankind, and whoever saves a life, shall be regarded as if he saved all mankind.''

ON THE WEB: Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida: www.cair-florida.org

First Conservative Baptist Church: www.conservative.edu/main.htm

[CCWoody]

I did nothing worse than what the pastor in the article did. :-) ~ McNoggin

So, would that be the "one lemming drowned so I did" defense?

Woody.

[syriacus]

I seem to remember some Christians that considered the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" to be hate speech.

But no fatwa was declared against those involved in "the Last Temptation of Christ."

I seem to recall reading this...

• On February 14, 1989, the day before Rushdie's book was to be published in the United States, the spiritual and political leader of Iran, the Ayatollah Khomeini, issued a fatwa against Rushdie. In Islamic law, a fatwa is a declaration issued by a legal authority.
  Khomeini's fatwa shocked the world:

  I would like to inform all the intrepid Muslims in the world. . . that the author of the book titled The Satanic Verses, which has been compiled, printed, and published in opposition to Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran, as well as those publishers who were aware of its contents, have been declared madhur el dam ["those whose blood must be shed"]. I call on all zealous Muslims to execute them quickly, wherever they find them, so that no one will dare to insult Islam again.

  . . .
• In 1991, the Japanese translator of The Satanic Verses was stabbed to death.
• Shortly afterward, the Italian translator was also stabbed, but survived.
• In 1993, the Norwegian publisher of the book was injured in a gun attack.

Investigators suspect that all these incidents were tied to the Iranian fatwa.

[hunter112]

Was this sign an attempt to shed more heat than light? Probably. I support this church's right to compare quotes, but couldn't they have found a nastier one in the Koran? A quote about restraining oneself is not representative of Islam!

[syriacus]

Taking a single verse out of the bible, or Quoran is unfair.

Who says so?

Jesus used single verses a lot. A you going to argue with His use of them?

[sweetliberty]

"I doubt any Islamic believer will see that sign and say "oh, I guess I was wrong" and convert."

I seriously doubt that that was its intention. I've always thought of those signs on the marques in front of churches as messages to Christians, particularly to those who are not regular churchgoers, sometimes to serve as a reminder, other times to convey a simple and powerful message and at still other times to sound an alarm or a warning. I see no problem here.

I expect if we tried to stifle Muslim "hate speech" all hell would break loose, but then they have become the "religion of choice" for the ACLU and other such anti-American types of late, so of course the obvious thing to do is try to silence the preachers. < /sarcasm >

[syriacus]

Was this sign an attempt to shed more heat than light?

We'll have to wait for the pastor's explanation I guess...

As it says in the article...

Youngblood, who said he is an expert on world religions, said he had been threatened and his property vandalized. He said he has filed 13 police reports since July.

Youngblood said his church would issue a formal statement later.

[CCWoody]

Really? I said that? I said "Those who would espouse their religion, faith or superstitions upon the public..." If you are going to attack and belittle me, have the courtesy to accurately quote me. ~ Hodar

Well, let's see....

espouse ~ To give one's loyalty or support to (a cause, for example); adopt.

It would seem that in addition to being asininely illogical, you are also in need of some English lessons. Perhaps some middle-eastern language is your primary and I should be a little more understanding of your difficulties. Nevertheless, your sentence, beyond actually saying exactly what I said it did is also bad grammer.

Does this sound familiar? ~ Hodar

It sounds like Islam, not how the disciples of Christ conduct themselves.

Woody.

[syriacus]

The sign being discussed.

[mor40]

My point has been (sheesh .... 10th time?) is when anyone takes a single verse, and uses it out of context, it can be unfair. See post #62.

Yes, you have a valid point, it can be unfair.

But in context, is it unfair to characterize Islam as a religion that (at the very least) tolerates violence to achieve it's goals?

The context is, of course, Islamic writings, Islamic history, and current events that we see in the world almost every day!

Because something can be, doesn't mean it is.

[sweetliberty]

"Mohammed was a wingnut for sure, but to condemn an entire populace on the basis of a selected verse is a litte unfair"

uJst as a house is only as solid as its foundation a religion iJs only as solid as ots foundation or founder for it is upon that foundation that everything else is built. Islam is built on the rantings of a thoroughly corrupt and evil and violent man who chased after demons and had sex with children. Christ, on the other hand, was perfect.

[sweetliberty]

"you would find out that the Bible says that if you can't win them with love, cut 'em with the Sword and cut 'em deep, til you see the Blood...And that's what this pastor is doing"

Perhaps you should have clarified for the less astute that the sword in this case IS the Word of God which "is quick and powerful and sharper than any 2-edged sword" otherwise you will have those like A2J and Hodar running around all over FR claiming that you are calling for the mass slaughter of Muslims in the name Christ.

[sweetliberty]

I suppose that would mean that Hodar either isn't a Christian or is a buffet-style Christian, since he would obviously find the commands of Jesus to "confess your faith before before men" and to "go into all the world and preach the gospel" as fundamentally distasteful because it might offend somebody who subscribed to some other "religion".

[Woahhs]

There are many "students" of mathematics (usually in grade school) that absolutely don't see the utility of "letters" in problem-solving either, so it doesn't surprise me you don't see the parallels to St. Stephen.

Stephen's entire testimony was for the sole purpose of pointing out the corruption of the religious leaders (and by extension, their doctrines) he was facing.

In the context of 21st century America, the two clauses on the sign accomplish the same end.

The wisdom this pastor is teaching is that Christianity and Islam are NOT moral equivalents.

For you to assert the pastor's intention was nothing more than provoking Muslims is to judge his heart, and nothing more than vanity on your part.

[twntaipan]

Of course I accept the Old Testament. But comparing the words of Christ (found in the New Testament) with the words of Mohammed (found in the Koran) show a stark contrast between the teachings of the two. Christ died for all; Mohammed, seemingly, wants all infidels to die.

[Dave S]

the sign does not say that "GOD" in the old testiment forbade murder, it says JESUS forbade murder, which is absolutely correct! Show me one reference to jesus condoning or sanctioning murder in any Bible

Gee, and I thought the Bible teaches that God and Jesus are ONE. Silly me. I didnt know that Christ took on a new identity to escape condoning killing in the Old Testament.

[Dave S]

He created satan, too. So?

You totally missed the point but why am I surprised. Followers of God write the Bible. Mohammed wrote the Koran. Can you prove to a scientific certaintly or even a philosophical certainty that God inspired one more than the other. You may say blasphemy but there is no way you can prove it until you die.

[Dave S]

Christ's teaching were based upon standards set by the Old Testiment.

Isnt it amazing how these people can dissociate themselves from the Old Testament as though it never existed and the God of the Old Testament is someone else. Before the creation, the Word was with God and the Word was God. It totally amazes me that some forget that Jesus was a Jew and that he studied and preached from the Torah. Remember not one jot or title...

[HarryDunne]

I hadn't thought of it that way.

[Dave S]

But no fatwa was declared against those involved in "the Last Temptation of Christ."

No, just against abortion doctors.

[go star go]

Islam is all about murdering innocent people. What the hell do you think happened on 9/11?