Church's sign has Muslims outraged -''Jesus Forbade Murder. Muhammad Approved Murder. Surah 8:65.''

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[chance33_98]

Church's sign has Muslims outraged

Florida pastor says criticism of Islam is legal and fair

Associated Press Friday, January 17, 2003

Jacksonville --- The Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida is calling on state religious leaders to repudiate a Jacksonville Baptist church's roadside sign the group claims is anti-Muslim.

The sign outside the First Conservative Baptist Church in Jacksonville's Mandarin area reads: ''Jesus Forbade Murder. Matthew 26:52. Muhammad Approved Murder. Surah 8:65.''

Altaf Ali, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida, said his organization attempted to talk with the Baptist church's officials about the sign, but were rebuffed with belligerent language.

''All Americans must band together to condemn hate speech designed to divide our nation along religious and ethnic lines,'' Ali said. ''Any attempt to marginalize or vilify one religious community is an attack on all people of faith.''

The church's pastor, the Rev. Gene Youngblood, who also leads the Conservative Theological Society and Conservative Christian Academy, said he has been using the marquee-type sign to express the church's opinion for 15 years and has no plans to remove the message.

''First and foremost, are we not entitled to freedom of speech?'' Youngblood said.

Youngblood, who said he is an expert on world religions, said he had been threatened and his property vandalized. He said he has filed 13 police reports since July.

Youngblood said his church would issue a formal statement later.

Iman Zaid Malik, spiritual leader of the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida, said some Christian friends brought the offensive sign to his attention.

''Misinformation must be rejected by all people of conscience,'' Malik said. ''This shows that the vast majority of Americans reject hate and seek a society where good overcomes the evil.''

Malik said the Quran verse indicates that those who believe and are steadfast in battle will overcome much larger armies. It is not an endorsement of murder, he said.

The verse reads: ''O Prophet [Muhammad]! Inspire the believers to conquer all fear of death when fighting, [so that] if there be twenty of you who are patient in adversity, they might overcome two hundred; and if there be one hundred of you, they might overcome one-thousand of those bent on denying the truth, because they are people who cannot grasp it.''

The Council on American-Islamic Relations said the Quran also states, ''whoever murders a person . . . it will be as if he killed all mankind, and whoever saves a life, shall be regarded as if he saved all mankind.''

ON THE WEB: Council on American-Islamic Relations-Florida: www.cair-florida.org

First Conservative Baptist Church: www.conservative.edu/main.htm

[Morrigan]

I'd rather be paranoid than be dead.

[Dave S]

have to understand that no Muslim will tolerate a bad word spoken against the Koran, Allah, or the Prophet. They cannot allow anyone to say anything disparaging, so they see that as "hate speech."

I seem to remember some Christians that considered the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" to be hate speech.

[Quix]

Quite so.

The vengeance thing is strictly for The Lord.

It may yet occur that God will order men to kill other men in God's behalf. But I suspect that God and His Angelic forces will be doing most of the direct CLEANSING THE EARTH stuff.

Christ's WAY IS STILL--TURN THE OTHER CHEEK for the vast majority of us the vast majority of the time.

God Almighty is a fierce and fearsome Almighty God. Those against Him do well to consider their poverty and weakness comparably. Perfection will ultimately isolate those steadfast against Him. His instruction is that we ought fear not those who merely can destroy the body--but ought well to have reverential awe/fear of He who can destroy the soul also.

The main reason Israel has all the troubles it has today is that it didn't remove evil from within it, in it's path and around it when ordered to do so.

And the fact remains, THE LOVE--THE *SELF*SACRIFICIAL LOVE DEMONSTRATED ON CALVARY is the most powerful force in all Creation. But that same Love is coming with Words sharper and more devastating with final destructiveness than any two edged sword or other arms.

[Quix]

There is a bloody thread woven throughout the entire Koran.

EXACTLY.

And the Blood thread through the Bible is one of Sacrifice for others.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Post of the year, IMO. What else is there to say?

[Quix]

I think Mohammed ENCOURAGED and often ORDERED retribution.

A bit stronger than just OKaying it.

[CCWoody]

I'm missing your point. ~ HarryDunne

Hodar's "logic": Those who would espouse their religion, faith or superstitions upon the public, are to be more feared than terrorists at large.

What Hodar is proposing is that if I share my faith with the public then I am more to be feared than the terrorists. Obviously, if he had his way, he would rip the freedom of speech and freedom of religion right out of the Constitution.

Woody.

Admittedly, the missionaries and the witnesses can come at inconvienient times, but I have always brought them into my home. I would never deny them the opportunity for me to prove to them that they are wrong from the scriptures.

[Morrigan]

I'm sure they did. But that didn't stop the movie from coming out, or people going to see it.

The Muslims want this sign stopped. They don't want people to see it. And, IMO, they will probably get their way.

But is it right that they get their way? I don't think so.

[Quix]

I have some significant sympathy with your perspective.

I do believe the fellow seems to have a significant pride problem that he would do well to get on top of very emphatically and well before publically, much less sternly exhorting others--not to mention other religions with such an authoritarian stance.

NEVERTHELESS, I'm glad SOMEONE else besides Graham et al is showing the courage to speak some truth about Islam in the public square.

[StopGlobalWhining]

I don't believe that any true Christian religion condones killing as a consequence of failing to "believe". In Islam, if a muslin rejects or renounces his or her religion, they can be executed for apostasy.

The verse reads: ''O Prophet [Muhammad]! Inspire the believers to conquer all fear of death when fighting, [so that] if there be twenty of you who are patient in adversity, they might overcome two hundred; and if there be one hundred of you, they might overcome one-thousand of those bent on denying the truth, because they are people who cannot grasp it.''

[HarryDunne]

I'm sorry...?

[Just mythoughts]

As a student who studies I am familiar with Stephen and see absolutely no correlation with Stephen and what this man did.

To provoke just because you can is against God, He told us to Matthew 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

Where is the wisdom in what this man did? This is a free country and with that freedom every individual can believe whatever they want. There are plenty of murders committed every day in this country and this man could have stated "Jesus Forbade Murder" quoted the scripture which should apply to all and left it at that.

In what possible way will the words this preacher used teach what he claims to be a teacher of? So he wanted to outrage Muslims, why because he taught Christ or because he insulted their beliefs, to what end? I thought that Christian preachers/priest were to teach to bring people to God.

Christians need not provoke hate, they will get enought hate just teaching the Word.

[Sir Gawain]

Well, reading Numbers, around chapter 31, could be made to look like genocide. Killing the males, all females that weren't virgins, and all male children. Of course that's looking at that from a worldly context.

[HamiltonJay]

Ahh.. but you are confusing the message... the sign does not say that "GOD" in the old testiment forbade murder, it says JESUS forbade murder, which is absolutely correct! Show me one reference to jesus condoning or sanctioning murder in any Bible.

Christianity is based upon the teachings of Christ. The covenant of the old testament was suplanted by the new. Islam is based upon the teachings of Mohommad, who not only condoned murder, but personally engaged in not only killing, but sex with children and had no qualms using his "prophet" status to steal one of his own sons wives.

Mohommed was the Jesse Jackson of his time, an pathetic opportunist out for himself. Please don't insult everyone here by trying to claim he was a moral or spiritual equivalent of Jesus.

[Charles Martel]

Islam is a gutter religion made by criminals for criminals...

That statement certainly dovetails neatly with the "prison conversions" to Islam. There are elements of Eastern mysticism woven through Islam, among them the same "easy access" found in Hinduism and Buddhism, to name only two examples.

One need only recite the Shahada and *presto*, you are a Muslim. No ceremony such as baptism, no study of scripture under the guidance of an Imam, nothing. A close analogy would be joining a street gang by putting on a garment of a specific color.

[COBOL2Java]

My prayers go out to the pastor and the church, may they continue to shine as couragious lights in the darkness, in the name of Jesus Christ, who is God the Son, amen.

Pray for his protection, also. No doubt a fatwah has already been announced.

[Hodar]

What Hodar is proposing is that if I share my faith with the public then I am more to be feared than the terrorists.

Really? I said that? I said "Those who would espouse their religion, faith or superstitions upon the public..." If you are going to attack and belittle me, have the courtesy to accurately quote me.

For example, there are religous groups in the southern US who feel that drinking is wrong, therefore YOU can't buy beer at the store, to drink at home. Pornography is wrong, therefore YOU can't have the option of watching or reading Playboy. The general rule is that I am too stupid to know how to live, but they are so self-righeous in their beliefs, that they will force me to live by their beliefs; whether I like it or not. Does this sound familiar?

[cmak9]

''whoever murders a person

The dirty little secret is that Islamists define non-believers as non-persons (as did Mohammad), and thus, they are subject to being killed.

[JimRed]

"If anyone transgresses against you requite him with an exactly like action and restrain yourself for Allah; and know that Allah is with those who so restrain themselves" (Surah 2:194).

The other side of "do unto others"...do it back!

[Marysecretary]

And Allah is not God either.