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Rape, California-style
TownHall.com ^ | 1/13/03 | Kathleen Parker

Posted on 01/12/2003 9:23:37 PM PST by kattracks

I'm going to try to keep this clean, but the recent California Supreme Court ruling that a woman who changes her mind during sexual intercourse qualifies as a rape victim tests one's commitment to decorum.

Yes, you read it right. The 6-1 ruling changes the definition of rape so significantly that a man who doesn't withdraw immediately upon his partner's shift in attitude can go to prison. One young man already has.

A 17-year-old -John Z. -served six months in a juvenile detention facility on a rape conviction following just such an encounter. He and Laura T. were having consensual sex when Laura decided she needed to get home. She didn't say, "Stop." She didn't cry out or struggle.

She merely said, "I should be going now" and "I need to go home," according to her testimony.

Because it reportedly took John Z. a full minute and a half to cease and desist -an act of rare self-control among the primate known as a 17-year-old male -he was convicted of rape. I don't know who was holding the timer during this intimate act. Was the rape victim monitoring her watch's second hand?

With its ruling Monday, the California Supreme Court affirmed John Z.'s conviction. Although Justice Janice Rogers Brown agreed with the rape definition, she dissented on whether the boy had been guilty of rape. She noted that he might have had an "honest and reasonable belief" that the girl didn't waive consent, a defense recognized by California courts.

Honest and reasonable? That sounds right. Given that the girl wanted to have sex, or at least said she did, then proceeded to have sex, and only then said she needed to go home, one could leap to the wild conclusion that the young man may not have divined her intent that he retreat.

I'm sorry, but when did girls get so stupid? In the old days -when girls were apparently both smarter and tougher -a girl who didn't want to have sex didn't have sex. She said no thanks, grabbed her purse and walked out the door. The boy may have been disappointed and frustrated, but he wasn't confused. "No" meant "no."

And "yes" meant yes to the finish line. If you want a guy to stop midway through the first act, pick an older boyfriend. Say fiftyish. Speaking of which, I keep coming back to this: Where's Daddy? Who didn't teach this girl the rules of engagement?

Once upon a time, fathers taught their daughters better. You don't take a boy to bed and then say "no." In a similar vein, as my father taught me, you don't pull a gun on someone unless you intend to kill him. There are certain things you don't kid around with, and hormonally charged teenage boys and loaded guns are among the top two.

I'm not suggesting that girls get what they deserve. So stifle the swoon, sisters. Nor am I suggesting that there aren't times when boys and men fail to listen carefully when girls and women speak. In my vast experience, they mostly pay close attention when food is involved.

But I am prepared to defend males against the sort of insanity that makes them criminals for not being able to read a girl's mind. Who exactly will bear witness to these "he said-she said" debacles? What words will suffice to mean "Stop," if "I need to get home" is enough to convict a boy of rape? What if she'd said, "Oh, gosh, I've got to buy cat food." Would that do? "Clearly my heart wasn't in it, Your Honor. He should have known I meant stop!"

And how quick is quick enough for the man to cease his foul play? A minute? Thirty seconds? The court didn't say.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, fellas, but the gelding of the American male is nearly complete and the message clear: You can do nothing right. As a friend's world-weary 15-year-old son correctly summarized the zeitgeist: "Women good, men bad."

John Z. wasn't guilty of rape; he was guilty of being male. If I were a guy, I'd find another country.

©2003 Tribune Media Services

Contact Kathleen Parker | Read her biography



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: California
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1 posted on 01/12/2003 9:23:37 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
Hey, if you don't want to be accused of rape, wait until you're married before you have sex.
2 posted on 01/12/2003 9:26:57 PM PST by Texas Eagle
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To: Texas Eagle
I was married and in divorce court my wife has accused me of attempted rape. Don't fool yourself. What they say goes. It's amazing.
3 posted on 01/12/2003 9:34:21 PM PST by griffin
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To: kattracks; Texas Eagle; griffin
Is KP considered liberal or conservative?
4 posted on 01/12/2003 9:36:04 PM PST by Maedhros (mpaa sux0r)
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To: Texas Eagle
Sorry. In California men are routinely charged with "spousal rape". Men are screwed if they are screwers here.
5 posted on 01/12/2003 9:37:51 PM PST by cartoonistx
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To: Texas Eagle
AND, conversely.....if you do NOT want to be Raped...wait until you're married to have sex.....
6 posted on 01/12/2003 9:41:32 PM PST by goodnesswins (Life IS Grand.)
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To: cartoonistx
Sorry. In California men are routinely charged with "spousal rape".

What the hell? If that's true, that is completely ludicrous. There are laws against spousal abuse but I find it hard to believe even in California that a guy could be charged with spousal rape solely on the grounds that his wife changed her mind halfway through. But I'm no Perry Mason so I could be wrong about that.

But still, the little puke who couldn't control his love thang gets no sympathy from me.

7 posted on 01/12/2003 9:42:14 PM PST by Texas Eagle
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To: griffin
Major bummer. You can't prove the negative and you're assumed guilty.
8 posted on 01/12/2003 9:43:37 PM PST by Maynerd
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To: kattracks
She merely said, "I should be going now" and "I need to go home," according to her testimony.

Per another article, that's a gross oversimplification of her testimony. I forget the exact details, but the dialogue was more like:


Her: I should be going now.
Him: Let me go for a bit longer.
Her: No, I need to go home.
Him: Just a bit longer.
Her: NO, I need to go home NOW.
She used the "N" word at least twice, and if her testimony is to be believed (nb: since the jury apparently believed her testimony, the appeals court is bound to do so) her non-consent was clear and unambiguous.
9 posted on 01/12/2003 9:44:53 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: goodnesswins
AND, conversely.....if you do NOT want to be Raped...wait until you're married to have sex.....

Well, yeah....unmarried sex brings all kinds of drawbacks with it but in this case the guy was probably a lot bigger and stronger than she was and once she decided she didn't want to continue and wanted to stop she was simply physically incapable of throwing him off the ride.

10 posted on 01/12/2003 9:48:20 PM PST by Texas Eagle
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To: supercat
Boy, dating a woman is starting to get nearly as legally perilous as owning a gun in California.
11 posted on 01/12/2003 9:49:05 PM PST by mvpel
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To: mvpel
Boy, dating a woman is starting to get nearly as legally perilous as owning a gun in California.

Well, if a woman indicates she's no longer keen on having sex, including saying "NO" at least twice, continuing after that should be perilous.

12 posted on 01/12/2003 9:54:10 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: supercat
What is said and what is meant are two different meanings. The true meaning is probably best or closest understood by somebody who has become closest to the other's heart and soul.

Surprisingly, this is one of the interesting coincidences of marriage. The man closest to understanding the needs and meaning of his wife's soul, with the authority to act over her, is to love her and act properly. In some cases that proper action would be continuance of intercourse and in others immediate cessation.

One more reason why sex is best after marriage than before. Several thousand years of human development amazingly match our God given instincts per His plan. Of course plenty of humanists believe that rationalization in lieu of those God given systems provides a harmonious system of checks and balances through court systems rather than courting the systems of God.
13 posted on 01/12/2003 10:01:12 PM PST by Cvengr (John 3:17...doesn't begin with 'except')
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To: supercat
"She merely said, "I should be going now" and "I need to go home," according to her testimony.

I didn't see where she said "NO" anywhere.....

14 posted on 01/12/2003 10:03:46 PM PST by goodnesswins (Life IS Grand.)
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To: kattracks
I read the other article a couple of days ago - very detailed. Once the Pandora's box of "anything goes" sex was opened up, the number of diseases, crimes and ruined lives is going to increase. Natural law says that sex is meant for marriage, and sex either before or outside of marriage is fraught with myriad troubles. I was a "bad" teenage girl in the 60's. I can easily imagine (even remember?) situations like this.

1. Any girl who goes to a house, with no adults, a bunch of boys, and alcohol, is BEGGING for trouble.
2. Any girl who lets TWO boys play with her at once is DEMANDING to have trouble.
3. Any girl who lets one (or was it two) boys have sex with her and then "changes her mind" doesn't know the meaning of the words "too late". The boy stopped in a minute and a half - sheesh.

This decision is very bad and no wonder men are turning queer. The boy was stupid too but if girls are sluts there are always boys at the ready.
15 posted on 01/12/2003 10:08:59 PM PST by First Amendment
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To: Cvengr
What is said and what is meant are two different meanings.

No means no. While there are certain shades of meaning, from "No, not yet, but keep trying to make me say 'yes' if you like" to "No, not now, not ever, get lost you jerk", the "no" word pretty unambiguously means "no" unless it is followed up explicitly by something positive, e.g. hypothetically:


She: I should be going soon.
He: Okay, I'll hurry it up then.
She: No, no need to hurry.  Take your time.
Absent an explicit affirmation as above, though, the word "no" is pretty unambiguously negative.
16 posted on 01/12/2003 10:09:33 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: kattracks
I think this was already posted on FR, but this article leaves out tons of facts.
17 posted on 01/12/2003 10:14:04 PM PST by snowstorm12
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To: goodnesswins
True enough. She didn't say "no" at all. I guess now the Nazi feminists take "I need to be going" as being the same thing as being abducted at gunpoint and raped in a dark alley.

Absolutely amazing that this kind of legal garbage is tolerated. Rape? My eye.

18 posted on 01/12/2003 10:15:54 PM PST by Reactionary
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To: supercat
I don't know, it seems to cheapen the term "rape," when your failure to treat a naked, juicy, sweaty, delicious woman in bed with you like a red-hot poker, or a barrel of radioactive waste, the split-second after she half-heartedly expresses her second thoughts about the bumping and grinding you've been doing with her for some period of time, is brought into its scope.

Perhaps you could say the guy's in jail for being a bad lover, or having a small crank - if she'd been moaning "OH GOD!! DON'T STOP!! DO ME!!!" he might have "gotten off."

I guess I'll just have to teach my future son that if he's going to disregard my exhortations to not have sex before marriage ("do as I say, not as I did," "it's a different world out there today,"), that he'd better trust any woman who consents to have sex with him with absolute power over his freedom and his future, regardless of how much of a gentleman he may be. All it takes is a grudge and "I said no, and he didn't stop" under oath, and he can kiss his freedom goodbye.
19 posted on 01/12/2003 10:25:32 PM PST by mvpel
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To: kattracks
Ditto, Kathleen. You articulated perfectly what I was thinking when I read of this farce.
20 posted on 01/12/2003 10:25:56 PM PST by Conservababe
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