Scientists discover global warming linked to increase in tropopause height over past two decades

Space Daily ^ | January 5, 2003

[cogitator]

This just in...

[cogitator]

FYI

[Libertarianize the GOP]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[aruanan]

Scientists discover global warming linked to increase in tropopause height over past two decades

Except that most of the 1C increase during the 20th century took place over 50 years ago, 30 years earlier than the past two decades of change in tropopause height.

[Mad Dawgg]

Hmmm so temps will rise?

Sign me Up!

Try selling "Global Warming" worries to folks in Northern Ohio!

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Basically, they are saying that the thickness of the troposphere is increasing. What is the basis for the following inference?

This research undercuts claims by greenhouse skeptics that no warming has occurred during the last two decades. Such claims are based on satellite measurements of temperatures in the troposphere, which show little or no warming since the beginning of the satellite record in 1979.

I can only think that if the troposphere is thicker (and therefore has more mass?), and its average temperature is unchanged, then its total heat content must have increased.

[AppyPappy]

observed changes in tropopause

My wife has this.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

then its total heat content must have increased.

But, so what? The box just got bigger. This doesn't show that the rate of heat input increased.

[Hunble]

From the ground up, the temperature will decrease with altitude until the Tropopause is reached. Above the Tropopause the temperature starts to increase with altitude.

Now if the altitude of the Tropopause has increased, does that not imply lower average temperatures below the Tropopause?

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

There is a blantantly obvious contradiction in the following two paragraphs:

This research undercuts claims by greenhouse skeptics that no warming has occurred during the last two decades. Such claims are based on satellite measurements of temperatures in the troposphere, which show little or no warming since the beginning of the satellite record in 1979.

"Weather balloons and weather forecast models show that there's been a pronounced increase in the height of the global tropopause over the last two decades," Santer said. "Our best understanding is that this increase is due to two factors: warming of troposphere, which is caused by increasing greenhouse gases, ...

[agenda_express]

From the ground up, the temperature will decrease with altitude until the Tropopause is reached. Above the Tropopause the temperature starts to increase with altitude.

Now if the altitude of the Tropopause has increased, does that not imply lower average temperatures below the Tropopause?

Ouch. That makes my head hurt trying to figure this mess out. Why can't we just say, "changes in the earth's climate are likely caused by the sun," and leave it at that?

[Southack]

"LIVERMORE, Calif. -- Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory have discovered another fingerprint of human effects on global climate."

No, all that the researchers have done is show a change.

They haven't shown that the change was EITHER natural or manmade.

Thus, the entire premise of the article is unfounded.

[cogitator]

Except that most of the 1C increase during the 20th century took place over 50 years ago,

It was 0.6 C over the whole 20th Century. In the past 25 years or so, global temperatures have increased about 0.4 C, (or 1.8 C century). Those two observations aren't in conflict because there was a slight drop in global temperatures from the 1940s to the 1970s.

[cogitator]

Now if the altitude of the Tropopause has increased, does that not imply lower average temperatures below the Tropopause?

I think it implies that temperatures below the tropopause have increased.

[cogitator]

I don't see the contradiction. Warming of the troposphere raises the height of the tropopause.

[cogitator]

The change is observed. The implication of human activities is done via comparisons to models (two different ones, according to the article).

[cogitator]

My wife has this.

Sorry to hear that. She must be an airhead.

[syriacus]

Warning

Global cooling may be harmful to your health if you are homeless or impoverished. Freezing temperatures have been known to cause physical injury and death, especially among disadvantaged people.

If you learn that your frostbite is due to cooling actions instigated by environmentalists, consult your local lawyer. He or she can advise you of your chances of winning a lawsuit against the "Gotta be cool" crowd.

[Southack]

West Antarctic Ice Sheet Begin Melting 10,000 Years Ago

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

There is no observation of temperature increase. Just an increase in the area under study. I understand that an increase in the mass (assuming this accompanies an increase in thickness) of the troposphere could imply an increase in the total heat content, given that the observed temperature is constant. However, it most definitely does not imply an increase in the rate of heat flow into that mass. It would make sense to observe an increase in observed temperature followed by an increase in height/mass and say that the latter was a reaction to the former. However, there is quite definitely no such observation.