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Human cloning: it's the soul, stupid
townhall ^ | January 4, 2003 | David Limbaugh

Posted on 01/03/2003 9:28:23 PM PST by TLBSHOW

Human cloning: it's the soul, stupid

Regardless of whether a cloned human being was actually born as claimed, our society should use this disturbing report constructively by hastening our ethical evaluation of human cloning.

If the Raelien cult's claim is false, it's only a matter of time before it happens. After all, the Raeliens are not the only ones engaged in this horrifying enterprise. A fertility clinic in Italy and an embryology laboratory in Kentucky also claim to be close.

Brigitte Boisselier, president of Clonaid, the human cloning company engineering this process, appears to be right out of "The Addams Family" or "Munsters" TV series. And the Raelien cult, with which Boisselier is associated, believes that the human race was begun by extraterrestrials some 25,000 years ago. But we shouldn't let the comical aspects of this insanity overshadow its grave implications.

In all seriousness, just who do we think we are? Are we so self-absorbed as a species; have we become so coarse, so vulgar, so narcissistic that we can't recognize that our scientific capacity exponentially exceeds our moral maturity? Shouldn't we come to grips with where we've put God in this equation?

While we may have made scientific advancements of godlike proportions, there is one of God's prerogatives we'll never have the remotest license to, and that is His authority over our souls. We should fear His judgment as we erect the ultimate Tower of Babel in usurping His sovereign power to create humankind by duplicating babies as if from a Xerox copy machine.

When are we going to take the time to have this moral discussion? A perfect illustration of how casually we've approached this subject is that the one body claiming to have authority over the legality of cloning is the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA). I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that this paragon of unelected bureaucracies, the FDA, contends that it is the body that must approve any procedure aimed at human cloning.

The more scientific advancements we make, the greater will be the temptation to ignore their moral consequences, because these advancements will bring seductive promises of ever-increasing benefits to the human condition.

Our opinions on this issue will emanate from our respective worldviews. Since I am a Christian I won't presume to speak for others, but my understanding of the Bible compels me to conclude that human cloning is utterly violative of God's law. Other Christians may disagree.

The Bible reveals that God created us in His image and that He desires a personal relationship with us. We cannot attain a relationship with Him without humbling ourselves and surrendering to Him. By creating human life through cloning we have done just the opposite in the grossest imaginable outworking of human pride and the greatest conceivable affront to God. We have not only put other gods before Him; we have made ourselves those gods.

The Clonaid group says its purpose is to achieve immortality by creating carbon copies of humans, then "uploading" the contents of the original person's brain into the clone. Nothing better demonstrates their contrasting worldview.

Aside from the fantastic notion that they can upload brain contents and personal experiences from one brain to another ala Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie "Total Recall," how are they going to create a true continuity of consciousness? What happens when two identical beings coexist? How do they avoid the pain and horror of repeated physical death in their little immortality scenario?

Much more significantly, they are neglecting that little detail we refer to as the soul. Cloning advocates such as Clonaid can't possibly believe in the biblical concept that God creates unique human souls in His own image. Even assuming they can precisely duplicate a human being physically, what about his spiritual aspect? Will he/it have a soul? This is humanism at its most obscene. We are just masses of tissue to be manipulated and reformulated at will -- our will.

When the God of the Bible tells us through the prophet Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart," I think He's referring to our souls, our essences, not our yet to be fully formed brains. It is a chilling thought that His Jeremiah statement may not apply to beings that He did not form in the womb but that human scientists did.

We better quit ignoring these pressing moral issues, because we can be sure that science is not going to wait for us to catch up.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; humancloning
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To: Polycarp
My personal opinion is that clones will not have a human soul but will be perfectly demonically possessed, though I have never heard an educated guess from a Catholic well versed in these matters.

Who would know about matters dealing with the soul? You think the Almighty God, the Father of Creation might know?
The article was written with NO Scriptural references to back up his opinion. Therefore, it is just an opinion. So where would one go to maybe seek out the Creator's point of view? Just maybe His written Word? The Bible? Just maybe?


Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)

Adam was nothing but a nicely packed body of dust until the Father of Creation breathed into him the breath of life and Adam became a living soul. Now that Adam was a living soul (as opposed to a dead one) God took part of Adam and his living soul to make Eve. Now both were living souls from the the original soul life breathed into Adam. Later with the wonderful Father of Creation's Adam and Eve got the hots for each other and bore another living soul of Cain, then Able, then a whole lot more kids.

The point is that man creates nothing. Not dust or life, not anything. But man has learned to take "life" from something that is living and do remarkable things with it. As with any good thing man will find a way to do great evil with it, like nuclear power for instance. But cloning in and of itself is something God has allowed man to work with.
Will it be used for good? Yes. Will it be used for evil? Yes.


61 posted on 01/04/2003 2:01:37 AM PST by jwh_Denver
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To: Polycarp
My personal opinion is that clones will not have a human soul but will be perfectly demonically possessed,

From almost every source, I've heard exactly the opposite.

That STILL doesn't make it right.
62 posted on 01/04/2003 6:23:14 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
From almost every source, I've heard exactly the opposite.

Good. I'm happy to be wrong on this one. Can you recall any discussions on this from a Catholic source, that I could read?

63 posted on 01/04/2003 7:18:35 AM PST by Polycarp
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To: dpwiener
"Cloning is the obvious soulution to all the bitching about "souless technology".

This is series!

64 posted on 01/04/2003 7:35:42 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Desdemona
Human Cloning: Moral and Philosophical Considerations [will God create a soul for the clone?]
65 posted on 01/04/2003 7:37:56 AM PST by Polycarp
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To: Petronski
"Test-tube babies have souls, yet in vitro fertilization is contrary to Catholic doctrine."

But test tube babies have a mother and a father and perhaps the soul is instilled through that coming together process. In any case, you are taking a natural means of creating a human life and just giving it a little "help". You aren't really creating it.

Actually, I don't think there are any easy answers to the cloning issue, but there are a lot of questions. That in itself should be reason enough to put on the brakes. I have often feared that our knowledge and ability would leap ahead of our wisdom in using what we know, but human nature being what it is, and with many, if not most, scientists acting as if science itself is "God" I can't help wondering if it is an exercise in futility to even raise the argument. It seems that the die is cast and we will see this reality and learn firsthand whether or not it was a good idea. I don't expect a net positive result though.

66 posted on 01/04/2003 7:46:26 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Jimer
Mind Uploading Home Page.

The site hasn't been updated for 6 years... they should open-source their technology
67 posted on 01/04/2003 8:00:41 AM PST by thisiskubrick
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To: dpwiener
Why yes, I can clone a soul. My associates and I have perfected the process...

What I want to know is what if you are a SCIENTOLOGIST and you've signed your soul into a 1-billion year contract, and then you clone yourself with the Raelians, but then bounce the check to them. Will

a) your clone-child be raised by Tom Cruise

b) The Raelians attempt to contact L-Ron Hubbard through your clone

c) A showdown occur between Bridgette Boissilier and Priscilla Presley
68 posted on 01/04/2003 8:07:02 AM PST by thisiskubrick
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To: go star go
"If it impregnates your cranddaughter if the new child human?"

Which raises another question. Will clones be capable of reproduction, or will they suffer infertility. Suppose a clone lives to adulthood and marries. Will they then have to make yet another copy of themselves to have a child? I am reminded of the scene in "Multiplicity" when they made a clone out of a clone and he "wasn't quite right" and one of the other clones said that it's like when you make a copy from a copy it isn't quite as sharp as the original.

69 posted on 01/04/2003 8:10:52 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: go star go
"Are you saying a human can exist without a soul?"

What about zombies?

70 posted on 01/04/2003 8:15:05 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Polycarp
A soul is a supreme gift from God and God brings us goodness out of bad situations time and time again so I think He, if a clone is conceived through man's sinfulness, would not hold this gift back especially since the suffering of the cloned one would open a huge window to God for that pitiful individual.
71 posted on 01/04/2003 8:27:39 AM PST by Domestic Church
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To: BenLurkin
BenLurkin,...get ahold of yourself...Your clone posted #3 at the same time you posted #4. ;^)
72 posted on 01/04/2003 8:30:23 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: jennyp
"The Raelians believe in Intelligent Design"

Only they have their UFO/Satan as the designer.(and so the serpent still passes the apples out.)
73 posted on 01/04/2003 8:30:47 AM PST by Domestic Church
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To: Polycarp
" One of them, baby "Eve," was allegedly born last week and flown back into the United States, according to Cloniad, the cult's amateur research subsidiary."

I should think that this would be easy enough to find out if there is a will to do so. Just check with all airlines for passengers that day under a week old. How many could there be?

74 posted on 01/04/2003 8:35:15 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: thisiskubrick
A showdown occur between Bridgette Boissilier and Priscilla Presley

I hear the WWF is working out a Pay-Per-View contract on this "Fight of the New Millenium."

75 posted on 01/04/2003 9:03:39 AM PST by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
Based on experiments thus far, it seems, that even from a scientific standpoint, cloning is probably a dead end.

But, why would the soul be demonic? Even if the theory of recycled souls is true, why would a demonic one go to a clone?
76 posted on 01/04/2003 9:17:23 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: Polycarp; GatorGirl; tiki; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
"I do not think it will have a human soul."

Based on what? Twins sharing the same DNA have different souls, yes? Siamese twins ditto, yes?
77 posted on 01/04/2003 9:17:38 AM PST by narses
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To: Polycarp
Can you recall any discussions on this from a Catholic source, that I could read?

Not off the top of my head. I heard this via verbal conversations, although, admitedly, not from scholars. I'll see what I can find.
78 posted on 01/04/2003 9:21:53 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: thisiskubrick
"you clone yourself with the Raelians, but then bounce the check to them."

ROFLOL! And will you make a celluloid gem (titled 2003) based upon this now?
79 posted on 01/04/2003 9:24:13 AM PST by Domestic Church
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To: narses
Based on what?

I was wrong.

See this thread.

80 posted on 01/04/2003 9:25:11 AM PST by Polycarp
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