Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Guns: A Loaded Argument
The Heritage Foundation ^ | January 2, 2003 | Paul Rosenzweig

Posted on 01/02/2003 10:15:51 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed

The language of the Second Amendment seems straightforward: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Yet the debate rages on: Does each American citizen have the right to own firearms or not?

Last year, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit said yes. Citing historical evidence that clearly shows the Second Amendment was intended as a personal right, the Court said the Constitution guarantees to each individual American the right to keep and bear arms. The Justice Department soon adopted this interpretation.

Wrong, the Ninth Circuit recently responded. In an opinion penned by one of the same judges who declared the phrase “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, the Court recounted different historical evidence to conclude that the Second Amendment protects only the right of the people to maintain an effective militia. In other words, the amendment doesn’t protect individual rights at all.

With the decision of the Ninth Circuit, the issue is ripe for resolution by the Supreme Court. Indeed, some observers say that the Ninth Circuit’s ruling is something of a challenge to the Court, deliberately setting up a conflict between it and the Fifth Circuit and daring the federal government to look the other way. It’s been more than 60 years since the Supreme Court last considered the question, so it may not be able to avoid resolving it much longer.

The issue isn’t so much the amount of regulation. Hardly anyone, including the vast majority of those who say the Second Amendment protects an individual right, suggests that the amendment is an absolute prohibition on all government regulation of the use and ownership of firearms. Yes, they say, the amendment doesn’t prohibit the government from making it illegal for the average citizen to own, say, a grenade launcher or an anti‑tank missile. And yes, those who own automatic weapons should register them.

No, the issue isn’t “reasonable regulation.” Everyone agrees that within some reasonable bounds, the government can and should regulate who owns which types of weapons.

What then lies behind the conflict? A question as old as civilization itself: Exactly how much power does the government have to regulate individual conduct? Our Founders’ answer to the question was plain: The Constitution comes down squarely on the side of limited government and individual liberty. Our entire Constitution resonates with the idea that “that government is best which governs least” -- and the Second Amendment is no exception.

This view was widely held at the time the Constitution was framed. One commentary on the Bill of Rights, published anonymously in the Pennsylvania Gazette in 1788, asked: “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? ... Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords … are the birthright of an American. … [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”

Some of the Founders themselves made it clear that the Fifth Circuit’s position isn’t exactly a radical one. “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man,” said Thomas Jefferson in his “Commonplace Book.” Alexander Hamilton wrote in “The Federalist Papers” that no federal army could threaten our liberties as long as “a large body of citizens,” proficient in “the use of arms,” stands ready to defend them.

A due regard for this history demonstrates the error of the Ninth Circuit’s decision. Though the question may have little practical consequences, it lies at the core of the American self-conception and makes all the difference in the world. For at the center of the American heritage lies a distrust of governmental power. Just how that heritage plays out in this case may soon be decided by the Supreme Court. It should remember where we came from.

Paul Rosenzweig is a senior legal research fellow in the Center for Legal and Judicial Studies at The Heritage Foundation and an adjunct professor of law at George Mason University. Distributed nationally on the Knight-Ridder Tribune wire


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-43 next last

1 posted on 01/02/2003 10:15:52 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: *bang_list
Bang
2 posted on 01/02/2003 10:16:11 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
"And yes, those who own automatic weapons should register them."

Never mind that these are precisely the type of arms (those carried by the current well-equipped foot-soldier) that the founders wanted to make sure that the citzens had in quantities that vastly outnumberd any standing army, whether USMC or NYPD SWAT.

And in 1986, the tyrants in Congress (and a duped President and NRA) enacted a law that stopped FOREVER the production of these militarily-essential arms for civilian, so that there is one per 1000 citizens, and that number is actually much smaller accounting for the many concentrated in a few private collectors hands (many obsolete) and the fact that population will grow, while the guns will wear out.

In 100 years, the citizens will have at best 100-year-obsolete weapons to fight tyranny. In 500 years (if this tyranny lasts), we will be limited to 500-year obsolete arms.

Miller says I have the right to a machine gun, and that has since been misinterpreted and distorted.
3 posted on 01/02/2003 10:22:33 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
It should remember where we came from.



And where we are NOW! We are at war, whether anyone will admit it or not. Disarming us or trying to NOW would be suicidal. Hell, it might be suicidal even if we weren't at war.

I direct the SCOTUS to take a good hard look at Australia and Great Britain. And then look within to senator b*tch and her cronies.
And then, sez I, let'em try.
4 posted on 01/02/2003 10:26:50 PM PST by Nix 2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
The issue isn’t so much the amount of regulation. Hardly anyone, including the vast majority of those who say the Second Amendment protects an individual right, suggests that the amendment is an absolute prohibition on all government regulation of the use and ownership of firearms.

YES IT DOES. "shall not be infringed" is pretty clear cut

Yes, they say, the amendment doesn’t prohibit the government from making it illegal for the average citizen to own, say, a grenade launcher or an anti-tank missile.

Those weapons are deployed at the platoon level in an infantry unit. Yes, they are exactly what the Founders of our country wanted in the hands of the militia.

And yes, those who own automatic weapons should register them.

STRIKE 3 ..... Miller is totally unconstitutional.

5 posted on 01/02/2003 10:40:16 PM PST by Centurion2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Centurion2000
What part of SHALL NOT INFRINGE do these idiots not understand?
6 posted on 01/03/2003 6:16:45 AM PST by GailA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
Blaming the NRA for gun control is like blaming the crew of the USS Arizona for the Pearl Harbor attack.
7 posted on 01/03/2003 6:29:30 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
"Blaming the NRA for gun control is like blaming the crew of the USS Arizona for the Pearl Harbor attack."

No, it's more like blaming Neville Chamberlin for Hitler's invasion of neighboring countries.
8 posted on 01/03/2003 7:10:02 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
The NRA is only a lobbying group. They don't make the laws. If the gunowners would support the gun groups we wouldn't have any gun control. Whining about what the NRA can't do doesn't help the situation.

We need the 95% of the gun owners to join some sort of gun group. It doesn't matter which group they join. Driving gun owners out of the NRA is doing Sarah Brady's work for her.

Learn to work together.
9 posted on 01/03/2003 7:20:17 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
Yes, they say, the amendment doesn’t prohibit the government from making it illegal for the average citizen to own, say, a grenade launcher or an anti-tank missile. And yes, those who own automatic weapons should register them.

I have a problem with those statements. I can get a grenade-launching, Yugoslavian SKS for $160 here in town. I don't see the point of registering any firearms, including automatic weapons.

Repeal the ban on automatic weapon importation/manufacture.

10 posted on 01/03/2003 7:28:35 AM PST by cruiserman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

I guess I can understand those who got learnt in goberment skools not understanding this sentence structure but where on earth does the first part of the sentence in anyway modify the last part?

Frequently a very smart Freeper (sorry I don't recall who dat person be) :-),posts a test sentence (an I am doing this from a limited memory) like the following.

An educated electorate, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed" or words to that effect.

In the test sentence to follow the gun grabbers logic, I guess that only educated people should be allowed books.

11 posted on 01/03/2003 7:36:42 AM PST by Wurlitzer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
"Blaming the NRA for gun control is like blaming the crew of the USS Arizona for the Pearl Harbor attack."

Well, the NRA gave Bob Dole the okay for the Brady Bill in exchange for hunter harrassement legislation. (See GOA Vol 13, No. 1) That sounds like gun control to me!

12 posted on 01/03/2003 7:41:46 AM PST by NJ Mountain Goat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
No, it's more like blaming Neville Chamberlin for Hitler's invasion of neighboring countries.

Well..... theres a pretty strong argument that the NRA is the only reason we still have any 2nd Amendment left to quote.

Without them, and without discounting the efforts of the VERY FEW hardcore progun citizens in this country, we would likely be in the same fix as our Canuck, Aussie and UK brethren.

What NRA bashers tend to forget is that ours is a government of consensus and compromise, and no amount of martyrdom or self righteousness about natural rights is going to change that.

Idealism is nice in a vacuum, but short of taking up arms against the government the NRA is all we've got -soccer moms outnumber machine gun owners in this country by about 4 million to one.

Think anybody in congress is scared of GOA? Think again.

13 posted on 01/03/2003 7:43:30 AM PST by xsrdx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Beelzebubba
Yep...always err on the side of freedom....
14 posted on 01/03/2003 7:45:18 AM PST by The Raven
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xsrdx
And lest I come across as some NRA apologist, I'm not - I would much prefer GOAs positions.

But until WE change the attitudes of about 225 Million fellow Americans, the GOA position will remain fringe and outflanked.

15 posted on 01/03/2003 7:50:13 AM PST by xsrdx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Wurlitzer
More to the point, the actual Second Amendment has/had only a single comma. Every quotation with more than one comma is a misquotation and designed deliberately to mislead. See, for example THIS

--Boris

16 posted on 01/03/2003 7:50:57 AM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Centurion2000
Here's my take. Looking at original intent, the Founders knew what arms where, and also knew what artillery was. The right guaranteed was to arms, not artillery. So when someone asks if the Second Amendment guarantees them the right to a missle or an attack helicopter, the answer is that the guarantee ends at arms.

As to "shall not be infringed" the word infringe leaves a little wiggle room. Unobstructed might be a good definition. Any waiting period is an obstruction. Unfortunately, a database probably is not.

Finally, as to Miller, it is 100% constitutional. The finding is spot on. The supreme Court in Miller held that even criminals are entitled to possess military-style weapons. The Court then stated that it didn't know if a sawed-off shotgun was a military style weapon. (Since Korea and Vietnam, we now know.) Since Miller wasn't there in court, and no one volunteered, it became a missing fact. The Court stated that is had no notice of the type of weapon being of a character (military) to be protected under the Second Amendment. Had Miller mounted a defense, and showed the military use of a sawed-off shotgun, we'd all be owning M-16s today.

This means that your .380 Astra is probably not protected, but your AR-15 is.

Many district courts have quoted Miller incorrectly, presuming it's holding to be different. Most say that Miller stands for a militia being guaranteed the right to arms. In reality, it states that individuals, even criminals, are guaranteed a right to military-type arms.

I suggest a reading of Miller.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=307&invol=174
17 posted on 01/03/2003 8:00:45 AM PST by NJ Mountain Goat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Wurlitzer
BTW, I commend to your attention The Unabridged Second Amendment

and the following links:

A Practicing Attorney's Look at the Second Amendment

A Problem With Guns

ASSESSING THE CASE FOR FIREARMS PROHIBITION

Hoplophobia - The Root of All Evil

The Commonplace Second Amendment (destroys "militia right" interpretation)

18 posted on 01/03/2003 8:03:26 AM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Wurlitzer
What I find odd is that in many State constitutions, there provisions about citizens owning and keeping guns is very direct and explicit. Why the heck couldn't the FF's just written something like, "No free man shall be deprived of the right to keep and bear arms during times of peace or war".
19 posted on 01/03/2003 8:05:10 AM PST by FreeTally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NJ Mountain Goat
"Here's my take. Looking at original intent, the Founders knew what arms where, and also knew what artillery was. The right guaranteed was to arms, not artillery. So when someone asks if the Second Amendment guarantees them the right to a missle or an attack helicopter, the answer is that the guarantee ends at arms."

So the "Arms Control and Disarmament" agency should quit thinking about nuclear weapons and focus on handguns?

--Boris

20 posted on 01/03/2003 8:05:30 AM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-43 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson