Nashville, TN: Carjackers Surprised By Victim With Gun

News 5 Nashville ^ | 12/30/02 | staff

[Travis McGee]

NODs are better for the single searcher X1000!!!!

Once you go with a SureFire lite in search mode, you are stuck with it for the duration since your own night vision is shot. A goblin seeing that beam sweeping the living room or barn and yard will get in a shadow and wait in ambush for "flashlight man" to pass by before shooting him in his backlit back.

Keep the SureFire light, if you MUST use it, for a one second ID and blinding burst RIGHT before you shoot him, AFTER you have found him in stealth mode.

I cannot think of a better way to get dead than to go looking in the dark for armed criminals by sweeping far out ahead of me with a bright light, practically yelling out "HERE I COME! GET READY FOR ME!!!!"

IMHO, tactical gun lights are ONLY for SWAT Teams who are rushing in on shocked and dazed perps who have just been awakened by flash bang grenades. THEN they make perfect sense. If they are used by the single property owner, he must be VERY disciplned, and NOT give in to the temptation to announce his coming with a light search. He must save it for the last second to ID and blind before shooting.

All just my humble opinion mind you, based on no personal experience shooting bad guys. Your mileage may vary.

[FreedomCalls]

The shooting has been classified as justifiable homicide.

But nevertheless, it has been classified as a "homicide" committed with a gun. Remember that next time someone brings up gun-based homicide statistics. How many are in self-defense?

[Hal.009]

"When they are running away and are no longer a threat, you cannot pursue them and kill them," said Raybin.

What the guy should have said is "they are no longer a immediate threat". (Laughter!)

When a nest of cobras, black widow spiders or youth street gangs take up residence in your community you are under a constant threat. To think otherwise is absurd.

Kipling's tale of "Riki Tikki Tavi" illustrates the point. Nagi (the female cobra) realizes the mere presence of humans in the great house is a threat to her unhatched brood and so plots the death of the humans.The liberal mind set of "when a Cobra attempts to bite you and turns to flee.... you should not chase and kill it since it is no longer a threat" ignores the fact that the bite (crime) was "unprovoked" by the victim and the fleeing Cobra (criminal) will bite again. This behavior goes on until the cobra is dead.

[Shooter 2.5]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention something like that. My son bought low cost LED nightlights to put in strategic areas in his house but my house is so lit up from the outside I don't need anything inside. If you have to go outside to check on anything, outside floodlights are the answer. Flashlights are like Murphy's law on tracers. They work both ways.

I thought of a gimmick a couple of years ago. It was a "light grenade". Push the button and throw. Two or three seconds later the high intensity light comes on. After the section is cleared, just pick it up, [you can't lose it] shut the light off and repeat.

[river rat]

Bad guys with guns, in the darkness, should not be searched for with a visable light in your hands! This practice will not lead to a fulfilled life!

LONG before the era of night vision scopes, there were only two flashlights permited on the wrong side of the wire..

The Corpsman and the guy with the radio/map had a light...
Everyone carried batteries -- but ONLY these two lights..
We actually used red plastic inserts to hide the light and protect our own night vision.
Yes, I said map....this was pre-GPS!

The only "SAFE" illumination is the one YOU hang high in the sky --- to light up the whole freaking place and blind the stupid bastards that stare at that star shell as it slowly drifts to earth...while you keep your eyes DOWN and scan the area for targets...

I would think that walking around with a visable light, looking for a bad guy -- would be like asking to get killed..
Just an old fart's opinion...

Happy New Year folks!
Semper Fi

[yarddog]

Thucydides gives an account in his history of the Peolponesian wars of a group (I think they were from Plataea) who attacked a Theban army in the dark.

The Thebans lit torches and set out to hunt them down. The Plataeans simply waited in the dark and using the light of their enemies torches to locate them killed them.

I guess those people 2,500 years ago already knew not to use flashlights improperly.

BTW I could be mistaken on the identities of the combatants as I am going on hazy memory but the basic story is true.

[Travis McGee]

I think a "light grenade" that goes on on impact with the ground is very feasible, why not? They could even be disposable, or stay on bright for only a set time, say one minute.

I really like outside motion detector triggered lights, esp those that are independent of house power and run on solar charged batteries. They will still work if your house power is cut.

[harpseal]

If I might add my humble $.02 worth. Clearing a house or a room is probably one of the most difficult tasks that a lone individual can face. If you show a light you have identified yourself and your position. If one is talking about the defense of one's own home one is talking about a place where one knows where everything is without the benefit of light. An intruder does not know where the furniture is placed and is more likely to bump into something and divulge his position with that sound.

If one absolutely must go looking for the source of that bump in the night is worth the money for some good night vision googles or monoccular. As a boater I have found them a great boon for navigating narrow channels on moonless overcast nights where there is almost no ambient light. They are also priceless for seeing what has awoken my hound in the middle of the night. I can quickly tell if it is racoon or the porch or a coyote in the yard, or a potential intruder.

As for .30 carbine a .38spl revolver is a very good means of self defense that will very likely serve you very well. Unless one is willing to devote the time to throughly master a semi-auto pistol so that working the safety is absolutely a conditioned response, and one is willing to do the necessary maintainence faithfully there is very little advantage in the quick reload for the opdinary citizen. A whole lot of the people on this website have shot for 20 or 30 years so we talk about our tastes and preferences as though they were gospel they are not. The only absolute truth about handguns for self defense is a .22cal short that hits the target exactly is a whole lot better at stopping than a .50cal hand cannon that misses the target. I also note that more than one shooter has had their night vision limited severly by their own muzzle flash in the dark, Thus a .38 spl that does not have as big a muzzle flash as a .357 magnum may be a better choice for hime defense in the middle of the night. Just my humble opinion.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[Travis McGee]

Glad we agree, great to get feedback from those that really did it.

I think folks are seduced by sexy TV dramas showing SWAT teams (as in 4-6 guys together!) rushing into rooms: but they are wearing armor head to toe, and already know the layout and have just stunned the bad guys with flash bang grenades. They are in full out "ID and shoot right now" mode. Totally different from a homeowner on his own!

[Travis McGee]

I see that not much has really changed that reality in 2,500 years!

[harpseal]

I really like my old .30 carbine. In younger days I dropped deer with that rifle using 110 grain hollow points. I found it as good as a the venerable old .30-30 for deer in the NH woods where 100 yards was a long shot. Light and reliable it did the job for years.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[Travis McGee]

I just thought of a "light exception" which would be to set your house up with a master switch and very bright lights. From your bedroom you could throw one switch and pump 200 lumens into each corner of the house, while your eyes are firmly shut and covered! Then you flip them off and move, trusting that the bad guy will be night blind for several minutes.

Just an idea...

[Squantos]

Good post Harpseal.......dang good thing my three rotts can't operate a flashlight. I use one pretty much to just follow the blood trails :o)

Merry New Year !!....Stay Safe !

[harpseal]

Stunning the bad guy with a suddenly bright light might very well work and be an exellent tactic. If one's bedroom is not included in the bright light pattern then no need to close one's eyes. The question is would most people wire their houses this way?

Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[AnAmericanMother]

The question is would most people wire their houses this way?

LOL! My husband is unreeling the 300' of 14 gauge wire even as we speak . . . . (g) not really, but he's interested in the idea. Unfortunately, he is 6'6" so guess who gets to run the wire? I already had to inch through an 18" crawlspace to run the wire for the LAN . . . and I don't like mud, spiders, or crickets. :-(

[Travis McGee]

Yeah you're right. Nobody's going to wire an entire house for that.

[AnAmericanMother]

You don't know my husband!

We're currently living in a house we didn't build, which is really annoying, if you've ever built a house (our family's built 5 if you count 2 additions). Nothing is where you want it to be. When the kids all finish school and we move to a smaller house, we'll build again, and my husband has already put the "malefactor illumination circuit" into our plan list (he just put it back into the drawer.)

[PoorMuttly]

Ever used a laser outside on a cloudy night ? If it weren't so horrifying, it'd be funny. It draws a beautiful, bright red line...right to your muzzle.

[BraveMan]

Yeah you're right. Nobody's going to wire an entire house for that.

It's easier than you think . . .

[FreedomPoster]

>>The question is would most people wire their houses this way?

Just thinking about it, you could probably replace manual switches with X10 switches and do this with no real rewiring, just device replacement. And, you could get a key fob remote control that you keep on lanyard attached to the grip of your bedside personal defense firearm.

http://www.x10.com/products/x10_ws467.htm