Do Moslems, Christians and Jews Believe in the Same God?"

FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | November 29, 2002 | Serge Trifkovic

[stuartcr]

My desire has nothing to do with whether something is true or not. With the help of God, is how I have formulated my beliefs.

[ArGee]

My desire has nothing to do with whether something is true or not. With the help of God, is how I have formulated my beliefs.

I understand. And I surely hope it was G-d you were listening to and not an imposter.

Shalom.

[maro]

Absolutely. The best kind of tolerance is of views with which we strongly disagree. A tolerant person does not automatically become a person without opinions, preferences, or ideas of his own. Now, we should not tolerate everything, just as much as we can while living in a reasonable society. If John wants to sacrifice roosters to his god and smear his face with the blood, I'm disgusted but I think I can tolerate that. If John believes his religion requires that he strap explosives to his chest and kill innocent people for his god, that crosses the line.

[maro]

Not necessarily. Let's say that I believe that the founder of Rome was a tall, blond Scandinavian guy named Sven who had a limp. You believe that Rome was founded by a short dark-haired guy named Jim who was left-handed and squinted. Mary swears that Rome was founded by Napoleon. We each believe in one founder, so it could be said that we all believe in the Founder of Rome. But what does that really mean? Isn't this just a trick of nominalization? What about Alice, who goes by the traditional account, and says that Romulus and Remus founded Rome? Since her account has TWO founders, I guess we have to agree that she DOES NOT believe in a Founder of Rome. So what? Isn't what is really important the specifics of what each person believes, and whether that belief is well-founded or true?

[Gargantua]

Jesus said,
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I shall give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
I and My Father are one.

(John 10:27,28, + 30)

It is not possible to deny Christ, but still believe in God as He is found in the Bible. Jesus Himself says that They are one and the same.

[Gargantua]

"Ever notice that when it is claimed that Jesus is the Son of God Jesus himself is never quoted as saying so?"

Jesus said,
"...do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I [Jesus] said, 'I am the Son of God?'"

Perhaps you missed this part when you read the Bible. Book of John, Chapter 10, Verse 36.

[1stFreedom]

>>Not necessarily.....so it could be said that we all believe in the Founder of Rome.

Sure. But the question of who founded Rome in your example is one of distinct, separate, tangible people. When talking about God, your argument is not applicable since the point of reference is the single supreme Being, not several different Beings. Kinda like describing my attributes, wrong or not, you are describing 1stFreedom, not multiple people.

>But what does that really mean? Isn't this just a trick of nominalization? What about Alice, who goes by the traditional account, and says that Romulus and Remus founded Rome? Since her account has TWO founders, I guess we have to agree that she DOES NOT believe in a Founder of Rome.

True, she would not believe in THE founder of Rome. She would believe in founderS of Rome. Polyfoundism. LOL!

>> So what? Isn't what is really important the specifics of what each person believes, and whether that belief is well-founded or true?

Sure the specifics are important. And yes, it does matter about beliefs. Not all the beliefs are true or equal.

One supreme Being is one one point of focus. Multiple founders of Rome are different points of focus. It's not applicable.

[Michael2001]

Nope

[stuartcr]

True, but it is quite possible, and common, to deny Christ, believe in God, and not believe in the bible.

[ArGee]

It is not possible to deny Christ

But is it not possible to misunderstand some details about who G-d or Christ is?

I knew one pastor who used to say, "Well, we'll know we got salvation by faith right when we wind up in heaven. For everything else we believe, I'm sure the first words we here will be, 'The classroom is over there.'"

Shalom.

[kinsman redeemer]

..a belated "Thanks!"

[Gargantua]

"True, but it is quite possible, and common, to deny Christ, believe in God, and not believe in the bible."

Indeed. Christ Himself teaches us that the road to damnation is wide, and easily traveled, while the path to salvation is very narrow.

;-/

[Gargantua]

"But is it not possible to misunderstand some details about who G-d or Christ is?"

Of course it is possible. Many people do misunderstand. That is why Jesus promised us that, once He went to Heaven to be with God, The Father, God would send us a Helper (The Holy Spirit), who would indwell all true believers, and teach us the meaning of God's Holy Word.

Jesus also said:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."

Taking the three parts of the sentence as separated by commas, we see Jesus saying this:

1. Christ's believers hear what Christ teaches us.
2. He knows who we are.
3. We obey His teachings.

Christ does not say, "My sheep hear some of what I say, but not all of it." He says that we hear Him. Period.

Christ does not say that His followers sometimes follow Him, and sometimes follow someone else... or often follow nobody. Christ merely says that we follow Him.

So, if His followers (aka "His sheep," for He is "The Good Shepherd) hear what He says, and follow His teachings, then there is no misunderstanding about what we believe.

And should such a misunderstanding or disagreement between believers arise, we are told to pick up our Bibles, and go to the source for the answer, lest any be deceived.

[Gargantua]

All glory, honor, and praise to Almighty God, for He alone is worthy. You are welcome, k r.

[Gargantua]

"I knew one pastor who used to say, "Well, we'll know we got salvation by faith right when we wind up in heaven. For everything else we believe, I'm sure the first words we here will be, 'The classroom is over there.'"

If you see him again, remind this pastor that when we enter the eternal afterlife, it will be as wholly new beings made perfect in God's sight... there will be no classrooms, and no need for them. (BTW, I do realize this pastor was most probably joking.)

;-/

[ArGee]

So, if His followers (aka "His sheep," for He is "The Good Shepherd) hear what He says, and follow His teachings, then there is no misunderstanding about what we believe.

When we become perfect, you will be correct.

Shalom.

[Gargantua]

Actually, we needn't be perfect in order to read, and follow, God's perfect Word in the Bible. He gave us that as an "instruction manual" for Faith because He was aware of our imperfect nature, and our subsequent need for such perfect instruction.

Peace to you, too, ArGee.

[Gargantua]

"(Is it possible to resign from the human race?)"

On our own? No, it is not. But all things are possible in Christ, who teaches us to be "born again" in the Word, and leave behind the human, worldly, sinful beings we once were.

Shalom.

;-/

[ArGee]

Actually, we needn't be perfect in order to read, and follow, God's perfect Word in the Bible.

God's perfect Word is Jesus Christ. While I believe Scripture is inerrent inerrant inerrunt without error, language is as fallen as everything else in this creation (thanks to man's sin). I do agree with you about the Holy Spirit helping us to interpret and I do agree with you that those who approach disagreements between brothers with humility will move toward unity quickly, I don't accept the Church will be able to perfectly follow Christ until He recreates all in the last day.

I guess what I fear is labelling people who disagree as unChristian simply because true Christians would never disagree.

Shalom.

[Gargantua]

"God's perfect Word is Jesus Christ... I guess what I fear is labelling people who disagree as unChristian simply because true Christians would never disagree."

Fear not. Neither I, nor you, will ever do any meaningful labeling.
It is God's perfect Word, Jesus Himself, who will do the labeling. And in scripture, He tells us how it is that He will recognize those who are His, and those who are not.

Our first job is to make sure that we are His. Our next is to help as many others as possible know where to find that one unchanging and perfect Truth.

In Him, ArGee.

;-/