[Koblenz]

The south lost... C'mon, this guy is being a bit ridiculous. Is it also a slap in the face to fly the US flag in Richmond?

[dirtboy]

The Sons of Confederate Veterans view the Lincoln statue as "a slap in the face of a lot of brave men and women who went through four years of unbelievable hell fighting an invasion of Virginia led by President Lincoln,"

Living in the past. As the Eagles song goes, "Get Over It..."

[BenLurkin]

Here's comes another "Was Lincoln a War Criminal?" thread. I better step into the shower here . . .excuse me . . .

[berserker]

Earlier FR thread based upon a Richmond paper's article on the statue.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The Sons of Confederate Veterans view the Lincoln statue as "a slap in the face of a lot of brave men and women who went through four years of unbelievable hell fighting an invasion of Virginia led by President Lincoln," Brag Bowling, the SCV Virginia commander, said Thursday.

Maybe he'll remember that comment the next time he wonders why blacks (the descendants of people enslaved by the culture of his ancestors) get upset over Confederate flags and monuments. Maybe he'll remember that comment when blacks act like they don't like the term "states rights" which was used as a defense of legal, forced segregation into the early to mid 1960s. After all, a century of apartheid into generations which are currently middle aged does tend to make a people peevish.

[uncbob]

More PC crap being shoved down the Souths throat
As a Northerner I can't help but think all this PC garbage is doing nothing but alienating people including ME
Same goes for all the afirmative action etc etc .
It is doing nothing but building a huge resentment that isn't expressed but exists smoldering and will just build and build

[crystalk]

Yeah, Lincoln should know all about binding up the Nation's wounds.

He is the one that inflicted them!

[WhiskeyPapa]

The life-size statue by sculptor David Frech will show Lincoln and his son on a bench against a granite wall. The words "To Bind Up The Nation's Wounds" will be etched into a capstone.

I'd rather see a lifesize statue of Lincoln standing.

Oh well.

Walt

[Centurion2000]

Well that's going to be a statue just itching for graffitti and vandalism.

[ContentiousObjector]

does anyone know where you can make a donation to the building of the statue?

[gitmo]

Someone will take it down.

[laotzu]

If the North is so confident in their victory, and so hallowed in their righteoussness; why the need to constantly remind themselves of it?

[Johnny Shear]

Oh this is just PERFECT! And these hillbillys wonder why they're considered racist when they fly the confederate flag?

And I'll bet the people bitching about this statue would be the FIRST to bitch about someone protesting a Christain display on the county courthouse lawn.

Ugh.....

[Cinnamon Girl]

PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN PRESIDENT LINCOLN

[Intimidator]

I'm southern and who cares, get over it. It happened 140 years ago, its time to 'let it go'.

[Doomonyou]

Richmond, home to towering statues of Confederacy figures including Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and J.E.B. Stuart, was abandoned after Union forces led by Gen. Ulysses S. Grant attacked on April 2, 1965.

1965? You kinda figure Grant would have retired by then.

[logic101.net]

Maybe a National Hero, but a true foe of a little document called THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Our founders, who wrote that document were rebels; they kicked the King out of our land for overstepping his authority. All the south wanted was to live within the bounds of the Constitution. Under the Constitution, the Feds were the servant; now they are the Master.

All this thanks to Lincoln! Honest Abe my but! Let's try Socialist Abe!


MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/

[Question_Assumptions]

Questions for those who think think the Confederacy was on the right side of the Civil War. If the Confederacy had won:

1. When, if ever, do you think slavery would have been eliminated in the Confederacy?
2. What do you think the status of blacks would be in the Confederacy today?
3. How do you think the CSA and USA would have fared through the end of the 19th and through the 20th Century as compared to how the USA really fared?

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the idea of states rights, a certain amount of sympathy for succession as a state right, and have quite a bit of sympathy for many of the Constitutional complaints about things done during and after the war by the North.

That said, nostalgia for the Confederacy frankly does start to look like racism when the issue of whether the South was on the right or wrong side of the issue of slavery never gets discussed. It does start to look like people wish that the Confederacy had won to preserve slavery or, at the very least, to keep blacks "in their place".

To give you an analogy (that I'm sure will offend some people) I'm sure that many German soldiers fought for noble reasons in World War II and had no idea that people were being murdered in death camps. And I'm sure that many Japanese fought for noble reasons in World War II and never took part in a Bataan or a Nanking. But Americans still often get the gut feeling that something just isn't right when a German or Japanese leader honors their war dead, regardless of how noble the soldiers being honored were. Why? Because no matter how many good points their side had during the war (e.g., German complaints about the bad deal they got at the end of WW2, Japanese complaints about European and American colonialism in Asia, etc.), the Germans and Japanese governments were promoting horrible racist policies and committed horrible atrocities on people under their control. That just can't be ignored. To honor a German or Japanese soldier from that war, especially without recognizing the fatal errors of their side, feels like an act of honoring their fight and, by extension, to suggest that their might have been something good or noble if their side had won. I think most Americans find that sort of thing hard to stomach, since those sides was so clearly in the wrong and, indeed, I've seen people in the American press and here on Free Republic complain when the Japanese Emperor goes to their war shrine to honor their war dead, without mentioning any of the Japanese problems during the war.

Similarly, the problem with honoring those who fought for the Confederacy is that it suggests that things might have been good if the Confederacy had won. Without addressing the influence that being a part of the Union had on both slavery and civil rights for blacks, this sure looks like, at best, indifference to the fate of blacks and, at worst, nostalgia for a social order where blacks were slaves or a permanent underclass that could be treated horribly. The only way to separate the states rights (and Constitutional) issues from the slavery issue is for people to address what it would have meant for blacks had the Confederacy won and whether that would have been better or worse than what really happened. And the only reasonable way to suggest that a Southern victory might have been good would be to provide a plausible scenario where slavery would have ended anyway and where racism would be no worse in the South than it is today.

Failure to talk about the implications of slavery reminds me of an old (on topic) joke I heard:

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

In the case of the Civil War, the sentiment seems to be:

Other than that, how was the war?

In both cases, the "that" is just too big to ignore and trying to ignore it only makes it loom larger over the picture (because ignoring the issue makes people wonder what that says about the person ignoring it, much as Japanese silence on their WW2 attrocities only makes people wonder what they really think about the war). I you want to discuss the states rights implications of the Civil War or the bad things that the North did, first you need to address how you feel about slavery and if you want to contemplate the roads not taken (a peaceful Confederate succession or a Confederate victory, for example), you need to address the implications of that road not taken with respect to slavery and civil rights. These are not trivial concerns to be swept under the rug.

[onedoug]

Thank God for Abraham Lincoln.

[Your Nightmare]

I really don't get this neo-Confederate attitude. It's obvious that some on FR wish that the South had won. Can these people call themselves American patriots and still pine for days when the South was in violent rebellion against the Government of the United States? Somebody on this thread even suggested that Lincoln should have been assassinated sooner! How anti-American, anti-patriotic can you get? Do these people hate America that much?

I really don't see how you can be a neo-reb and a patriotic American at the same time.