Persistent Drop in Fertility Reshapes Europe's Future [The Death of the West]

NY Times ^ | 12/26 | FRANK BRUNI

[ninenot]

Yes we are that selfish a Western culture

Nice post.

Also remember the fate of Balshazzar--and that one of HIS 'gods' was the 'god of gold.'

Mene, mene, tekel upharsin...

[Salvation]

Thanks for the ping!

BTTT!

[stuartcr]

Even in Europe, nothing gets cheaper, or stays the same. It's a fact. You don't really expect costs to go down do you, either for the govt, or private enterprises.

[Tax-chick]

THIS is the problem that PJBuchanan has not addressed. While he carries on about "immigration problems" (meaning there are too many immigrants,) he has not yet proposed exactly how the Gummint will provide the promised SOcial Security/Medicaid bennies with NO TAXPAYERS REMAINING...

I believe Pat expects the Revolution, if we cut off immigration. It's the only alternative that's really logical. Massive euthanasia, or try to keep working until they die ...

It's only recently that everyone came to expect years of tax-supported idleness, and the increase in life expectancy just makes the crisis deeper. The article mentioned that the retirement age in Italy is 57 (!!!), so an average of 20 years on the dole ...

The whole system is built on immigration, and will crash if the immigration stops (or if the immigrants, and the rest of us with kids, decide to stop supporting it.)

[stuartcr]

Is your solution to make people skinny, smart, and unhappy? Good luck.

[Pining_4_TX]

The truth is that there is no threat of overpopulation. There was an article by Wattenberg in the Spectator about how even third world populations are starting to decline. (I realize it doesn't seem like it.) We face a future world full of oldsters and then what?....

[GovernmentShrinker]

You're ignoring economic factors. The threshold for what consitutes "overpopulation" varies hugely according to the educational and economic development level of the society in question. Taiwan and Hong Kong are hardly bastions of illiteracy. Niger and other countries which are in dire straits have populations which know how to do very little beyond inefficient farming, and yet are producing 6-8 children per woman, when the parents can't manage to feed them, much less to educate them so that the next generation can have a better life.

[TomSmedley]

The threshold for what consitutes "overpopulation" varies hugely according to the educational and economic development level of the society in question.

Actually, all overpopulated countries have one thing in common -- socialisim! When people are ruled by a kleptocracy which periodically hurls monkey wrenches into the machinery of production and distribution, supply no longer meets demand.

[ninenot]

much less to educate them so that the next generation can have a better life.

Care to define "better life" in terms OTHER than "more" of everything?

Longer? Able to read 4 languages? SUV's?

The College Education (which has now deteriorated to HS equivalency?)

The Renaissance, which manifested great cultural development, took place in an era in which people still died before the age of 50 (typically) and lived in drafty, leaky homes. No sewer systems, and a long walk to the clean water.

[Desdemona]

bump

Material goods don't always bring a better or happier life.

[ninenot]

Remember that Bismarck established "social security eligibility" as 65 only because the vast majority of people died before then.

[GovernmentShrinker]

It's easy to romanticize to poverty and illiteracy from the comfort of your computer terminal in a climate-controlled building, with a full stomach. However, the reality is very very bleak. The reality is parents who sell their children to brothels and slave traders for a few dollars, so they can feed themselves and their other children for a few more months. And it's hordes of young men who are easy marks for recruitment by outfits like the Taliban and Mugabe's thugs. And it's people who believe it when someone tells them that they can avoid AIDS by forcing themselves on the nearest virgin even it's a 6 month old baby. And on and on.

In a country like Niger where less than 14% of the population has even basic literacy skills, notions of college for the masses are so far in the future that it's not even on the radar screen. These people can't feed themselves as it is, and they're going backwards fast. Perhaps you should sell your computer, sell or otherwise vacate your home, transfer the contents of your bank account to some worthy charity, and go live in a makeshift tent on the edge of landfill from which you will scrounge your food, since you're so convinced that modern conveniences are of no real value. If you can figure out a way to empty your mind of the contents acquired through education, that would complete the picture.

By the way, the Renaissance was an activity engaged in by a tiny minority of people, while the rest continued in physical, spiritual, and intellectual misery.

[tom h]

LOL! Touche, point to you stuartcr! It took me a minute to understand what the heck you were talking about. Thanks for giving me a laugh.

[ninenot]

Just for fun, look up the # of Federal cabinet secretaries in 1955 and compare to today.

I don't expect the cost/employee to go down. But I sure expect the gross number of employees to remain within reason.

States, Feds, municipals: all are grossly over-manned and have enjoyed the benefits of 'mission creep' by adding hundreds of thousands of employees--many of which make work for the private sector (filling out EEO-1, complying with hundreds of mandates.

And NOW we have the Feds manning the airports. Unlike the private security types, the Feds work 8-straight hour shifts, whereas the private companies staffed up for rush hours and staffed down for the lag times.

More bodies doing nothing for longer. Gummint at work.

[ninenot]

Go shrink a government if you want a worthwhile activity.

About three posts above yours, someone sagaciously observed that poverty is a consequence of socialism. While he is correct, OTHER governments are simply thieves.

Private property rights are a large part of prosperity, along with a government which has a moral compass.

As to life in Europe in the Renaissance--those people were perfectly happy with their lot. Children were not only accepted, but wanted, largely because children were able to assist in the chores, allowing more chores/day as the parents aged.

People died before the age of 50. So what??

[FITZ]

They need to learn to take care of themselves.

[FITZ]

Otherwise private charity can take care of the needy ---and would do it much better than the government has ---government charity isn't real charity.

[SamAdams76]

Liberals having less children...conservatives having more...sounds good to me.

[4Americaslove]

How can that be good if the net result a low fertility rate? It can't. This is not an issue of left vs right; it's an issue of survivability of the gene pool.

[SamAdams76]

I don't know if we have to worry about that anyhow. There are kids everywhere I look.