CA: Plastic pipe ban is ruled illegal

Sac Bee ^ | 12/21/02 | Aurelio Rojas

[smoking camels]

I too have trouble getting fittings...

[smoking camels]

I agree. If it freezes from both ends towards the middle it will burst. If it freezes from only one end or all at once it usually will not burst. Pipe rarely freezes from both ends at once though.

[smoking camels]

I had a valve open nearby to vent the steam and then used my A14 tip (A big a$$ tip!!!) on my Turbotorch. It is only acetylene gas but kicks butt. The trick is to have ZERO water FLOW. As long as the water is static it will not carry the heat away. You oughta see the customer's eyes when they witness this. It is tough though.

[smoking camels]

I think it is in their mind... but I am the same way! LOL

I am not sure what all is legal in CA.

Let me emphasize that PEX cannot ever flavor water of leach chemicals into the water.

[smoking camels]

I am not sure what the best way to clean flux out is. I use the correct amount then flush the lines. Now I use water soluable flux so it is not an issue.

[AlexW]

I live in west Tennessee, out in the country where we have well water that has very low ph...Talk about bad taste!!, just wait till you taste it from copper.
In older houses, you have to run the water for a minute to purge the bad taste. This is not a problem in municipal water systems where the water is treated.
The acid water also eats the pipe, and you soon get pinhole
leaks.
Almost all pipe here is pvc or cpvc. In a house that I built myself, it was all that I used. In an old house that I bought, we could not wait till we could get rid of the few leftover coper lines.

[smoking camels]

You make me nervous alright... but not for the reason you surmise. You have no clue what you are talking about and try to give advice. But what else should I expect from a STINKING LAWYER???????

I hereby order you to stop twisting my words to suit your agenda. I never mentioned RFH to my knowledge. If I did show me which post. And what is wrong with being a competant Master Plumber and RFH expert? To claim that my expertise in RFH degenirates my credibility as a Master Plumber only shows how twisted your poor little mind it.

To any who read this I ask a question... who are you going to believe? A LAWYER??? Or a Master Plumber with 20+ years of experience???

PS. What is your liability for giving advice for which you are unqualified to give? Do you really want to incur that level of liability? There is a precendence for damages being awarded in cases similar to what you just did. If this person tries to solder based on your advice and burns their home down you could be liable. It has happened. As a LAWYER you should know this.

[smoking camels]

sorry about your HD experience.

it is normal methods for them I have to say.

[Colorado Doug]

[DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME ALERT]

I had a valve open nearby to vent the steam and then used my A14 tip (A big a$$ tip!!!) on my Turbotorch. It is only acetylene gas but kicks butt. The trick is to have ZERO water FLOW. As long as the water is static it will not carry the heat away. You oughta see the customer's eyes when they witness this. It is tough though.

To those Freepers still following this thread: If you are ever using a torch on copper or galvanized pipe with ANY water in it. BE SURE TO VENT THE PIPE. Failure to do so will result in an expansion of the water into steam, resulting in explosive potential. I think the expansion is something like 1700 times, so it doesn't take much. If you don't vent PVC when thawing, you will just get a scary bang and a hot shower.

[SevenDaysInMay]

I am not a licensed plumber, but I play one as a multiple home owner/investor. I prefer getting my "heavier the better" pipe in 20' lenghts from plumbing supply shops instead of 10' at depots.

Copper (available in 3 wall thicknesses, pipe and soft-flex tubing) is easy to install and repair. $50 tool box comprised of a MAPP torch (propane is not hot enough for some joint tasks), pipe cutter, flux, solder, steel wool and emory ribbon, and rag will install a lot of piping. Invest $3 in a small spritz bottle for those times when you forget to use a piece of sheet metal or aluminum foil as a flame backer.

In quake country, for long linear runs of pipe make flex joints comprised of 4 elbows and then contine the run. It has been a long while, but I think that length may be as short as every 20'. I used the flex tubing for the 2 perpendiculars of each flex joints 'just in case'.

I always use foam insulation inside homes to limit flow noise and help keep hot water hot. Near exterior exposures of outside faucets, I leave at least 5' of heated, interior area pipe bare to soak up any heat from inside the house ao as to add warmth to the naked faucet's heat sink, but I also cover such faucets during hard freezes.

Any pipe subjected to freezing should be both well insulated and plumbed with drain valves. If you're doing your own plumbing, you can put in drains and gate valves (I like "ball" valves) whereas a union shop mentality would rather be called back for freeze break emergencie$.

I prefer "no-hub" cast iron drain pipe to schedule 40 PVC inside buildings because of plastic's flow noise, and I still use foam to wrap except at joints, for any future visual inspections for leaks. No more lead and oakum.

Plumbing is tedious work, not particulary sophisticated in residential installations. It is common sense and good workmanship. IMO, women make excellent copper plumbers. Get a code book and advice from sales counter folks.

[Petronski]

Merry Christmas

[smoking camels]

THANK YOU! I was just answering a question and never thought how it might look. I appreciate you caught this.

[smoking camels]

Merry Christmas to you to. I am sorry for being rude. Peace?

[smoking camels]

Based on your post I believe you are one of the DIYers I respect highly. Good luck! I applaud you. See, I am not anti-DIYer. Only when they have no clue. You have more "clue" than many plumbers I am afraid! Good for you! Ball valves do rule! PS. I don't like the unions either!

[A CA Guy]

Our water is treated and I am more worried about absorbing or breathing in the contents of vapor from water in a hot shower.
I never drink tap water and have had half galvinized pipe and half copper for a while.

Because I don't want an explosion (big leak) due to the two being conected, I am changing it all out.

The problem with your pvc or cvc is that it will sooner rather than later come apart where the joints come together.
The glue doesn't last like copper.

[Petronski]

Merry Christmas to you to. I am sorry for being rude. Peace?

Yes, we are both sorry for being rude. I even attempted to have my last harangue pulled before you saw it, but was not accomodated. I do find copper pretty easy to work with, but life is too short to argue about this.

Merry Christmas to you once again.

[Colorado Doug]

THANK YOU! I was just answering a question and never thought how it might look. I appreciate you caught this.

Oh, not at all. You were abundantly clear about using the valve for a vent. It was, in fact, my post where I talked about thawing pipes with a torch that made me think of it. When I was young and foolish, I once tried to qualify for a Darwin Award by holding a torch on a frozen pipe. The steam had no where to go. The copper pipe literally exploded! Your talking about that flame-thrower, you call a torch on 1 1/4 inch pipe simply jogged my memory.

[Diplomat]

Don't underestimate the real rat factor. My wife keeps pet rats and I have had to repair the dishwater electrical wires twice before sealing off all the cabinet access points in the kitchen. The've taken out some computer speakers too. They love to chew wires.