CA: Plastic pipe ban is ruled illegal

Sac Bee ^ | 12/21/02 | Aurelio Rojas

[NormsRevenge]

Plastic pipe manufacturers Friday hailed a court ruling that could clear the way for their product to be used in homes statewide as a victory for consumers over politics.

The industry sued the state in September, alleging Gov. Gray Davis' administration forced new home buyers to spend millions of additional dollars on housing by restricting the use of a plastic water pipe known as PEX.

[smoking camels]

good job!

[HamiltonJay]

Agreed, copper work is not difficult and is easily learned. I will take copper over PVC any day of the week. I would only use PVC for drain pipes, would not use it for feed tubes.

One thing I hate is STEEL piping... ugh, that stuff is just an absolute pain when it has to be worked on. I'll replace old steel drain with PVC in a heartbeat. But if there is steel in the feed lines, I almost always call a pro, that is just much of a hassle for me to do on my own if I can afford a plumber to do it.

[HamiltonJay]

Agreed, I think copper is an easy material to work with.. perhaps not as easy as PVC, but far more durable, and lets face it, it involves flames and metals with low melting points.... I don't know but sweating a great joint is far more rewarding personally to me than epoxying PVC together :).

[Willie Green]

40 years long enough for you?

No, at age 50 it would be closer to 45 years ago that I first soldered copper plumbing.
It was the summer my younger brother was born (one of 'em) and I spent a week or so at my grandparents.
The original "Willie Green" was a plumber/blacksmith by trade, and head maintenance foreman at a factory that manufactured valves and pipe fittings. Had an unimaginable assortment of professional plumbing tools down on his basement workbench. Of course, the technology was somewhat different back then. Didn't have the disposable propane canisters for doing the soldering, the old-timers had gasoline blowtorches with a little pump on the side to provide pressure.
(They make interesting antiques nowadays, but please don't attempt to ever use one. They're just too damn dangerous.)

That was also the summer he began teaching me how to fish.
Grandpa didn't teach me anything about cast-iron pipe, oakum and lead until I was older.

Sorry to hear that you're having difficulty with copper.
But there is a lot of shoddy/cheap workmanship nowadays.

[js1138]

Bingo! Anyone remember polybutylene water piping?

I still have it in my house. I ignored the come-on from the trial lawyers because it was installed correctly in my house and has no problems. Iron and copper lime up in my region. Plastic doesn't collect lime, and doesn't freeze during the occasional cold snap.

[smoking camels]

I have used the blow torches myself.

[smoking camels]

You should never EPOXY PVC together. No wonder you like copper better! LOL

PVC is illegal to use as water supply lines inside a house so quit worrying about it OK?

[Publius6961]

BUMP

[Willie Green]

I have used the blow torches myself.

Good.
Please don't misunderstand the opinion I'm expressing.
Based on cost considerations necessary in the commercial world, I'd probably go with the plastic pipe myself,
But for my own use in my own home, I'd still consider the extra money and effort for copper to be worth it.
(Although the in-slab hot-water radiant heat application for the plastic pipe could sway me. I always preferred hot-water radiant heat, but I don't see where that would be a practical conversion for the climate in this region of the nation.)

Anyway, just stating my personal preferences, my opinion on commercial use would be different.

[Petronski]

If you have so much more difficulty working with copper than plastic, perhaps you should stick to hiring plumbers and stay out of the deep end.

[HamiltonJay]

You should never EPOXY PVC together. No wonder you like copper better! LOL

Well sorry, I meant the goop they sell you to bond it, if its not called epoxy, my bust. If its illegal as feed lines, then I gotta wonder about all them prefab homes that at least did use it.

[smoking camels]

I seriously doubt any prefab homes used PVC as water supply lines... maybe you mean CPVC?????

[smoking camels]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good try partner. As a Master Plumber licensed in my state and very experienced in all types of plumbing piping I can tell you with authority that copper is much harder to install than CPVC or PVC. Having said that let me also assure you I do not find copper difficult to work with at all. A couple weeks ago I even soldered a 1 1/4" copper line that was FULL of water. Bet you can't do THAT! I can almost solder in my sleep. I can silver solder too. Bet you don't know the difference or that there is a difference.

I don't need no plumber. I also enjoy popping the bubbles of know-it-alls who are spouting off incorrect advice in my field. And anyone who thinks copper is as easy as CPVC is not doing something right or has nver worked with either.

PS. I happen to hate CPVC with a passion.

[Petronski]

And anyone who thinks copper is as easy as CPVC is not doing something right or has nver worked with either.

Wrong on both counts.

[snopercod]

Am I correct that the real problem with the Poly Butylene system was the aluminum crimp rings, not the pipe itself?

[HamiltonJay]

CPVC? Perhaps...

[spunkets]

Some states allow PVC and CPVC for hot and cold potable water, respectively.

"PS. I happen to hate CPVC with a passion."

Why?

[A CA Guy]

I appreciate your concern over what I said. My girlfriend is an estate and tax lawyer and had informed me that insurance companies are trying to drop homes built before 1960 that don't have copper as their pipe.

I have read about PEX but information is not complete out there.
PEX lasts exactly how many years?
Copper seems to last easily 50 years or more and has basically no breakdowns where joints are brought together.

So tell me a little about how PEX is connected and splits off, we know with copper there will be no leaks, but can we say the same thing with how PEX connects and splits? What connects one PEX line to another?

[Western Phil]

We here in east central Illinois had copper pipe develop pin holes at about 25 years. The first time I replaced the failed piece (main supply, cold water)with copper. A few years later, the hot water system turned into a sieve and I replaced it with plastic. No leaks in any of the plastic in 10-15 years. The Army has had similar problems at least one base in the southeast. Our lab did a study & determined that the problem was inadequate cleaning of flux remaining after the solder job (on the inside of the pipe). I couldn't really tell: The symptoms were failure near a joint. My conclusion had been that it was cavitation since the solder job seemed to be lumpy on the inside. Could have been flux, but my thoughts were that the flux would be washed off for the residents' drinking enjoyment.

[smoking camels]

what are your credentials for making this statement? I really want to know why you make this claim.