Immigration: Where is the OUTRAGE??

The Sierra Times ^ | Dec. 20, 2002 | Jackie Juntti

[Ben Ficklin]

BTW, welcome to FR.

[nicollo]

ENFORCE the God d*mn laws on the books.

I brought up the 55 analogy for this very reason. The laws are not enforceable. Greater enforcement will come by degree not kind from what we have today. As with drugs, the demand overwhelms the regulation. And the regulation drives up the price.

It's a no winner, no matter how you get at it. That doesn't mean we must abandon it, or not upgrade our efforts. We must be focussed, and concerted in our directions. Worrying about the totality of illegal immigration will only lead to the kind of frustration being expressed on this thread. It's wasted energy.

I think we'll see from this Administration some liberalization of illegal immigration, perhaps by way of a Reagan-type forgiveness, accompanied by a Reagan-type crack down. It's the only way. It must also have a hugely directed Federal attack on all forms of incentives for illegals.

That, and a security angle. Speaking of which, I suspect that greater danger to our security lies in drug trafficking than in illegal alien activity. The two are tied, but the traffickers are the pros. If anyone is seriously looking to attack the homeland, it will come with the help of coke smugglers, not apple pickers. That's part of what I call realistic targeting of our resources. We'd lose the forest for the trees the other way around. And, I have no doubt our people have kicked up these efforts against drug traffickers precisely for this reason.

[Missouri]

>>Since there was no link on the tancredo statement<<


It was in the Demver Post. I'll try to get you that link. It might take a while to find it. Do you want links to illegals and forged documents, too from F.A.I.R. ?

[Missouri]

>>Since there was no link on the tancredo statement<<


It was in the Demver Post. I'll try to get you that link. It might take a while to find it. Do you want links to illegals and forged documents, too from F.A.I.R. ?

[FITZ]

Labor unions were anti-immigrant.

A lot of the early labor unionists were immigrants from Europe ---Gompers for example. Later they may have realized that cheap labor was keeping their wages down.

[Missouri]

>>BTW, welcome to FR.<<

Thank you and MERRY CHRISTMAS.

[nicollo]

Absolutely. I think we covered how immigrants turn on their own. Yes, labor unions are protectives societies. From the beginning.

[FITZ]

"Statistics by nationality are quite striking. According to a report in 1908 comparing the departures in 1908 with the arrivals of 1907, 61% of the Southern Italians returned home. Croatians and Slovenians (59.8%), Slovaks (56.1%) and Hungarians (48.7%) also had high return rates. The lowest rate, 5.1%, belonged to the Jews (categorized as "Hebrews"). This is understandable since they fled the pogroms to save their lives and had nowhere to return. Surprisingly, when you think of all the nostalgic songs about their homeland, the Irish rarely went back — only 6.3%. Others with a low return rate were Czechs (7.8%), English (10.4%) and Scandinavians (10.9%). In the middle range were Germans (15.5%), Serbs and Bulgarians (21.9%), Finns (23.3%), Poles (33.9%) and Northern Italians (37.8%). Interestingly enough, the Irish and the Swedish were also groups with a very high percentage of woman immigrants."

From http://www.genealogy.com/genealogy/96_donna.html?Welcome=1040616336

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Based on your post, you, as have too many others, just don't get it. If we are at war, act like it. But since we've only been "scratched" in many's eyes, we don't need to go overboard. I'm sorry but when there are 300,000 dead, say in Los Angeles, I would have to shoot first and ask questions later. By then, the damage is done. But this war is only a joke IMHO. It will do nothing but strip the citizens of their rights and monies, and nothing to punish the terrorists and theives from abroad. America took a hit on 9-11. It started to bleed to death on 9-12. The next attack will put a stake in her heart....because her heart has been removed by those without the balls to do what needs to be done. God save those who are not ready. God help those who do not what is coming. And may God condemn those, the powerful and the wealthy, the political and the politcally correct, who assisted in our nations downfall. I now understand exactly how it felt, to be on the outskirts of Rome, after 400 A.D......

[FITZ]

For good reason --sometimes they know what things look like back home and don't want that here ---just like others of us. I know some Mexican immigrants who say things that would get them banned in a minute on here. Even illegals say if there weren't so many of them, they'd be able to make more and there'd be less problems for them.

[Luis Gonzalez]

If you have to wonder where the outrage is, then you must conclude that this issue will not be the "make him or braek him" issue that some people in FR claim it will be for Bush's re-election.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

What the Irish had going for them was they already spoke English, and with the religious strife and poverty in Ireland staying here was far preferable for many of them. But the numbers of other Europeans who went back is suprising.

Today the outflow is minimal, immigrants know the good life when they see it. And they also know the government has no intention of making them go back if they are in the US illegally. On the contrary, they send for their families to come over. The whole system has turned into a scam.

[austinTparty]

LOL! You Shinto, you...

[nicollo]

If you're right, stopping illegal immigration won't save us. Not a goddam. If our enemies are to get us as you say they will, it will come without illegal immigration. Container traffic will be much easier, for example.

But that's been hashed out on FR. I'll repeat: stop blaming immigration for the nation's ills.

Rather than fret so, you ought praise the Administration for cracking down on Arab visas. And for kicking Al Queda's ass all over the globe. Mexican immigration has nothing to do with this. If you're so worried about it as to pray for God's wrath upon your own people -- I'll not take your post literally, as I understand your anger; if you repeat it sober I'll kick your ass -- then you'd better look further than immigration.

We can never defend against all enemies. It's unrealistic and stupid to think we can. If we clog up the entire border the nation will be no more safe than it is today. What we are doing, instead, is to put pressure on our enemies at the source. We're going at them in every angle, every way. This includes tightening of at INS, btw. But it also includes money, diplomacy, guns, and the threat of your namesake, nukes. We're keeping pressure on the M*****ers everywhere.

That will save us, not fencing in Texas.

[judgeandjury]

How often are these threads directed at Asians? None, even though there is a significant amount of 'illegal' immigration coming from there as well.

One reason is because you don't hear the President of any Asian country constantly demanding that the United States give amnesty to millions of his country's citizens who are illegally in the U.S., like President Fox of Mexico does. Americans are sick and tired of that con artist of a President south of the border.

[judgeandjury]

Btw, the Supreme Court long ago ruled that non-citizens are party to American constitutional rights. Do you disagree?

Nice side-step. What I said was that an American is a citizen of the United States of America. Do you disagree?

[nicollo]

an American is a citizen of the United States of America. Do you disagree?

No. I also say that an American is someone who wants to be a citizen of the United States, someone who wants to be a part of this great, ongoing experiment in human affairs, this beacon light of history.

What, can't you two step?

[nicollo]

Thanks for the banter, folks. Gonna go write me some very late Xmas cards now.

Glad to have helped y'all save the world. You just need to listen to me more often...

Merry Christmas to all!

Michael (aka Nicollo)

(That includes you, Joe Hadenuf and 4Freedom, you big old xenophobic lumps of coal)

[JackelopeBreeder]

Wow, this thread is still going…I am impressed. Things are quiet on my stretch of the border tonight. It’s cold and wet and everything above 6,000 feet is covered with snow. I expect the snow to reach the valley before midnight. Here's hoping we don't have Miguel and Pablo in the hospital by morning with hypothermia and frostbite. Anyone making the run in this weather deserves to succeed.

Anyway, Nicollo, I liked your point about hysteria, as there is a lot of it on both sides of the issue. However, I see a larger problem: both sides are looking at it simplistically and in a one-dimensional manner – even here on Free Republic, and I consider this place to be the ultimate free-form think tank. I mean really; how many times have the Freepers out-guessed the rest of the world and the media, called the shots in advance, and then sat in front of their keyboards feeling a semi-gleeful disgust when the media and/or politicians play things out exactly as predicted.

The subject of this thread is illegal immigration. However, illegal immigration is just one of the most observable results of a much larger problem set. When you read anything at all about the border, ask yourself: where else does this piece of minutia tie in to the bigger picture?

First, let’s look at Mexico, a country equally rich in both natural resources and corruption. The government and the “elite” end of the social spectrum know that if the lower half of society ever discovers the strength of numbers, old Zorro is gonna be back in action, but making his Zs with the muzzle of an AK-47.

The easiest solution: make it easy to get to that wonderful Land of Oz up north. The ones who do go are typically the bolder ones who are more apt to make trouble when they finally get pissed anyway. They’re not only out of the country, but they’re sending home billions of yanqui dollars every year, thus keeping some more pressure off the government and the upper castes.

The problem in making this migration work is sheer numbers. How do you handle a clientele of millions for this semi-officially sanctioned travel agency? They have to be moved to the border, housed and fed at the border while they wait for the big chance, they have to be scooted over or under the fence, and transported far enough past the border to elude the Border Patrol and disperse. What you have is a very-big-mucho-grande problem in export logistics of the illegal kind.

There is only one organization with that kind of expertise – the drug cartels. We’re not talking small time business here, we’re talking about cartels being run like major corporations with all the high tech infrastructure. The cartels are run like legitimate businesses, but with the difference that their product is illegal. The cartels also made peace with one another in the last couple of years, so there is a lot of cooperation and “sub-contracting” between them.

Smuggling aliens is a good diversification; the cartels can use most of their existing structure with minimal change – and it is profitable. Let’s look at my home of Cochise County, mainly because I obtained the FY 2002 figures from another Freeper who will remain nameless. The going price for a coyote’s services is about $1,500 per Mexican and an average $30,000 for any non-Latino. The Border Patrol apprehended 156,950 illegals here in FY 2002. That is potentially $235 million dollars for one small stretch of border.

And nobody has any accurate idea how many got through undetected. Nobody. The official opinion of the upper level bureaucracy is that they catch between 40 and 60%. The actual field agents say 10 to 20%. If the man down in the weeds is right, we could be pushing a billion dollars in revenue for just this one small 82 miles of border in the forgotten corner of Arizona.

A few years ago, Carlos the Coyote was a small independent businessman. About two years ago Carlos was sitting in the cantina slurping a hard-earned Tecate when a couple of large hombres suddenly sat down next to him and outlined three choices: join the family as an immigation consultant for Recreational Pharmaceuticals, Inc.; go back to that clerk job at Happy Jose’s Fertilizer and Fine China store; or retire with a bad case of cranial lead poisoning. Carlos is not stupid.

Uncle JackelopeBreeder was gonna give you all a homework assignment. Old habits die hard and I used to be an instructor at the Army Intelligence School. I wanted you to check out this link and tell me where it fits in.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/809168/posts

Cut and paste, folks. I'm too full of rum to reach for the HTML cheat sheet and...it ain't here anyway. Probably in my daughter's room tucked under her copy of Javascripts for the Dyslexic.

I already know the answer as I’ve seen it happen before. Whoever comes up with the best answer gets an autographed photo of me, suitable for medicinal purposes. I am reliably informed that it will outdo most laxatives and is useful for keeping young children in line – photographic proof that the boogeyman really exists.

Some of you want to militarize the border -- without really saying how -- but I imagine you want to stick infantry outposts everywhere. Keep in mind that just here in Cochise County, that's 144,000 yards of frontage and would require a couple of divisions to do the job right.

So here's how to do it logically. Cochise County is home to Fort Huachuca which is home to the Army Intelligence School. So, we change a few key Federal policies and laws and turn the students loose on the problem.

The intelligence collectors would have the smugglers' comms broken in days. The analysts would have the place mapped out by tree type and movement corridors in the same amount of time. The ground surveillance radar gang would tell you every time anything bigger than a cockroach broke cover. The UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) operators would be spotting everything hotter than an ice-cube and feeding locations back within ten meters. Remember the Al-Qaida goofs who ran into a Hellfire missile in Yemen? Guess where the UAV operators are trained?

Bottom line, where are our national priorities?

[nicollo]

Damn you Jack, I was trying to sign off with my (Mexican) dignity intact.

*bumpin* you for later digestion. Thanks!

And Merry Christmas!