Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

College Seniors No More Knowledgeable Than 1950s High School Grads
CNSNEWS.com ^ | 12/19/02 | Scott Hogenson

Posted on 12/19/2002 3:08:50 AM PST by kattracks

(CNSNews.com) - The college seniors of today have no better grasp of general knowledge than the high school graduates of almost half a century ago, according to the results of a new study.

The average of correct responses for modern college seniors on a series of questions assessing "general cultural knowledge" was 53.5 percent compared with 54.5 percent of high school graduates in 1955, according to a survey by Zogby International.

The Zogby poll of 401 randomly selected college seniors was conducted in April for the Princeton, N.J.-based National Association of Scholars and released Wednesday.

"The average amount of knowledge that college seniors had was just about the same as the average amount of knowledge that high school graduates had back in the 1950s," said NAS President Stephen H. Balch.

Balch noted that the high school grads of half a century ago performed better than today's college seniors on history questions, while contemporary students fared better on questions covering art and literature, with no appreciable difference on geography questions.

The questions asked in the April poll by Zogby were virtually the same as questions asked by the Gallup Organization in 1955, with a few questions being slightly modified to reflect history.

"The questions were just about identical, as identical as we could make them," said Balch. "In most cases, they were absolutely identical."

Balch attributed the stagnation of performance on general knowledge questions to several factors, including a decreased emphasis on general knowledge in high school, placing colleges and universities in the position of having to fill academic gaps among students entering college.

"This is fundamental knowledge that everyone should have and if your students are being admitted without it, then that only reinforces the need for you to take general education seriously," Balch said.

But Balch said he didn't consider such actions to be remedial in nature, noting that "the remedial problems have to do with students not being able to write or read at the eighth grade level and still getting into college. There are many institutions in which that's a difficulty. You have people who just don't have the skills let alone the knowledge."

Even though the NAS study raises questions about the caliber of general education offered in high schools, colleges and universities also bear some responsibility, Balch said.

"I think it probably has a lot to do with the dumbing down of curriculum, both at the college and high school level," said Balch. "It looks good, certainly, to say 'more people are graduating from college,' but is there any real intellectual yield from it?"

Also part of the problem is that many colleges are placing less emphasis on liberal arts education in favor of more specialized education geared toward specific career paths, which Balch said isn't necessarily in the best interest of students or society.

"I think these results, which don't seem to show a great deal of value-added in the general cultural knowledge domain - I think these results are quite interesting and disappointing," said Balch. "We would hope that the college students of today would have done a good deal better than the high school students of the past."

Also contributing to the trend is an easing of college admissions standards. While Balch doesn't advocate a return to standards requiring competency in Greek or Latin, he does say colleges should "insist that the student coming have basic areas of knowledge."

A solid background in general knowledge, Balch said, is "very important both for good citizenship and, for many people at least, for a happy and interesting life," by providing students with what Balch called "cultural furniture that allows them to be better citizens."

Click here to read the general knowledge questions.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.





TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: educationnews
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 281-283 next last
To: lonestar
When I get older, I can see myself being the same way with my grandkids...

Back in my day, we invented the Internet and we invented the personal computer. Yes, you kids today just don't compare to my generation. We were a generation of doers and go-getters. If it wasn't for our generation, why we'd still be getting our news from Dan Rather on the Teevee..."

61 posted on 12/19/2002 5:33:43 AM PST by SamAdams76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Congressman Billybob
While I have always believed that most of today's colleges (i.e. general admission state schools that end up teaching a majority of its students to read and write) are little better than yesteryear's (is this a word?) high schools, I don't believe that these 12 questions prove anything. It seems to me that s scientific study would need to have a much more significant number and scope of questions to truly compare these things.

Among other problems I can easily see with this poll, a high school senior may have been more apt to remember these things because he/she recently learned about them, while a college grad might not have studied any of this since high school, making it more likely that he/she cannot recall it on the spot.
62 posted on 12/19/2002 5:36:05 AM PST by brownie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Hank Kerchief
>>But then, that may have been unfair, since most college graduates probably do not know what an oratorio is.<<

Hey, using words like that will get you banned!
63 posted on 12/19/2002 5:42:38 AM PST by freedumb2003
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: NittanyLion
Well, I am an old-school type person. Certain things MUST be memorized (multiplication tables, points on the compass, capitals of states and nations, etc.) BEFORE you put it anything in context.

This is why the early years of education used to be consumed with memorization...so that the later years could concentrate on critical thinking.

64 posted on 12/19/2002 5:44:52 AM PST by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

From the questions/discussion:

"More than three in five college seniors – including majorities in all sub-groups, except education majors (49%) – know that Madrid is the capital of Spain."

"What great scientist do you associate with the Theory of Relativity?...
Education majors (29%) were the most likely to give an incorrect answer."

If our education majors are the dumbest of the lot, is there any surprise that students' performance is declining?
65 posted on 12/19/2002 5:46:27 AM PST by Neologic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iowa Granny
I know that today's college seniors know far more than the H.S. class of '64. I have a college senior at my house. He has knowledge that didn't exist in 1964 when I was a H.S. Senior.

Who do you think laid the foundation/discovered most of that "knowledge?" It wasn't you or your kid.

Could your kid: 10 Describe how a mercury light works; 2) Describe how a doorbell works; 3) Describe the differnece between a wet cell/dry cell battery.

Only 3 of about 20 questions on a test I had to take in l954. It was a 9th grade General Science test.

66 posted on 12/19/2002 5:46:31 AM PST by lonestar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: SamAdams76
Sam...

Your original posts speak for themselves and mirror Zogby. Have a good day Sam.

67 posted on 12/19/2002 5:50:01 AM PST by cynicom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Balch attributed the stagnation of performance on general knowledge questions to several factors, including a decreased emphasis on general knowledge in high school

Oh...I give up...what exactly is the purpose of high school?

68 posted on 12/19/2002 5:52:03 AM PST by montag813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SamAdams76; cynicom
cynicom seems to have a problem with anybody who is well-read and armed with facts other than himself. Yesterday he posted something about how few people even know who Henry Wallace was and I posted a few Henry Wallace facts off the top of my head. Then cynicom comes back with the following (false) claim:

Guess ole PJ went to look at that 30 second bio he scanned of Wallace.

I guess cynicom can't accept the fact that I actually KNEW those facts without having to look them up. And as proof of this fact was my claim that I read a book about the 1948 Progressive Party campaign called "Gideon's Trumpet." Guess what? I was WRONG! I found out this morning that the name of the book is actually "Gideon's Army" which means that I did NOT look up that info on the web since if I did I would have stated "Gideon's Army" not "Gideon's Trumpet" (another book).

Please forgive me, cynicom. I got the name of the book slightly wrong but it has been many years since I read it so my memory wasn't quite up to par. However, it does prove I got those Henry Wallace facts from my memory, NOT from the web. This may shock cynicom but other folks actually do read books. I can attest for sure that you (SamAdams76) definitely are a big book reader from what I've seen of your active participation in the Freeper Reading Club. Perhaps cynicom should join too since he might learn a few things.

69 posted on 12/19/2002 5:52:43 AM PST by PJ-Comix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: MrNeutron1962
If you don't know what to feed a horse, you should not get an advanced degree in anything. You may be aware that thesis defenses were much more challenging, adversarial, and open-ended than they are now (I'd love to have been on Chief Moose's panel - did he even have to give a verbal defense?).

High school principals and police chiefs don't need advanced degrees. Cops shouldn't need college degrees at all. We are graduating fleets of dumbasses: They can make a spreadsheet do addition for them, but have no clue whether the curve-fitting a spreadsheet does is valid for their application or even to ask that question. That's lame.

70 posted on 12/19/2002 5:53:08 AM PST by eno_
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SamAdams76
I think another thing is that today they try to prevent kids from dropping out who might as well drop out. Probably back in the 1950's the graduates were those who wanted to finish.
71 posted on 12/19/2002 5:54:03 AM PST by FITZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: NittanyLion
...That said, the curriculum is also too full of tests based solely on memorization skills (here's a map of Europe, fill in the names of each nation)

When I was in school, we did both. First, we got the blank maps, memorized where everything was, and then we learned all about 'em.

The same applied to important dates. We memorized first, and then got into the meat of the matter.

They don't do any of that anymore in most schools. I recently had the opportunity to look through an elementary school science textbook. Under the chapter entitled "A History of Scientific Advancement" (or something like that), there was not ONE mention of Apollo 11 or Neil Armstrong. Not one. Not even a lousy picture with a caption. The pyramids were featured prominently, though, both Egyptian and Mayan. But no Apollo program. Go figure.

Regards,

72 posted on 12/19/2002 5:54:32 AM PST by VermiciousKnid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: dawn53
When my 14 year old's score reflected that he had the general knowlege of a 30 year old, I knew they must have slacked off on teaching this sort of thing.

Yeah, I had similar experiences with those tests (I think it was the 1978 California Achievement Test, but don't hold me to that). It was supposed to be the "most difficult year" of that test to determine one's general knowledge on different subjects and to find out which grade level the student was at. I was routinely scoring into the college years in English and upper high school in math. Did I mention I was only in 6th grade?

73 posted on 12/19/2002 5:56:26 AM PST by Future Snake Eater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: brownie
Among other problems I can easily see with this poll, a high school senior may have been more apt to remember these things because he/she recently learned about them, while a college grad might not have studied any of this since high school, making it more likely that he/she cannot recall it on the spot.

Your kidding. Did you read the questions? Anyone who can read and understand a Newspaper would know the answers to those questions. My mother, who recently passed away, when 87 could still name all the presidents of the US, the capitals of all the states (which she taught my children before they went to school), and could still tell you where most of the countries in the world were located, and most of their capitals. (She had some problems with some of the "new" countries.)

She was just a plain old High School graduate, and hadn't "studied" these things for a few years. The reason college graduates cannot answer the questions is because they never knew the answers.

Hank

74 posted on 12/19/2002 5:56:44 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: PJ-Comix
PJ...

Brevity son..When one carries on such as your last, it tends to dilute your message. Condense it to a few lines and I will read. Read up on your history PJ.

75 posted on 12/19/2002 5:57:13 AM PST by cynicom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: hellinahandcart
I would think they would associate it with a hanging chad.
76 posted on 12/19/2002 5:58:04 AM PST by PeteyBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
In 1994 I went to a well-respected, smallish, liberal arts college that was ranked quite well in US News & World Reports; that was affiliated with a relatively conservative Christian denomination. I had grown up in Canada and this was my first contact with American students (I went to college when I was in my early 20s).

I can say without hesitation that many of them should never have been admitted. Of the ones that were there, I would say that only half were educated well enough to attend. I used to joke that many of them should be in college, but only as janitorial help.

I recently did some consulting with a company that had hired a father (mid 50s, graduated 1963 or 1964 from HS) and son (graduated high school 1993 or so). I mentioned "Manila" as a place - Dad knew I meant "Manila, Philippines"; son asked "what's Manila?"

77 posted on 12/19/2002 6:01:20 AM PST by ikka
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hank Kerchief
Hank...

I am tutoring a young man in the 9th grade. What he does not know is indeed astounding and sad. Most appalling is the fact that he cannot write. He has to print everything and that is acceptable. Public school of course. Yes, he is good at computers, but he cannot write. I had to buy a large wall map, to teach him where the rest of the world is and how they live. Sad....

78 posted on 12/19/2002 6:03:03 AM PST by cynicom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: cynicom
Read up on your history PJ.

I'll tell you what, cynicom. I CHALLENGE you to take a History Quiz contest against me right here on the FR. Christmas Day would be a good time for me. What we can do is have other Freepers post American history quiz questions to us in REAL TIME. The winner of each quiz question is the FIRST one to post the correct answer (to prevent the possiblity of spending time to look up the answers on the Web). Then all of the winning answers posted by you and me are tallied up to determine the final winner.

So that is my challenge, Cynicom. I was planning to get drunk as hell on Scotch on Christmas Day and I may still do so since PJ drunk will still beat cynicom sober. So are you going to continue to talk the talk or will you walk the walk?

79 posted on 12/19/2002 6:04:28 AM PST by PJ-Comix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: PJ-Comix
PJ... Enough aready..Have a nice day.
80 posted on 12/19/2002 6:05:44 AM PST by cynicom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 281-283 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson