Quick Heads Up: Did I Hear Right? Hackworth Called Cheney a Draft Dodger?

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

My ears might have deceived me. Did I hear correctly on the Sean Hannity Show? Did Hackworth call Cheney a draft dodger?

[Morrigan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that a "draft dodger" was a person called up to serve and refused to go. Like Bill Clinton or Muhammed Ali (the boxer formerly known as Cassius Clay). My dad enlisted in the Marines when the draft was going for Vietnam. He didn't wait to be drafted, he felt it was his duty to join voluntarily. He absolutely hates the people that were drafted to serve in Vietnam that didn't go. For example, he disliked Bill Clinton for many reasons, but the biggest one? He called Clinton a draft dodger.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

You forgot "Or has an axe to grind, or was passed over for untold reasons (mentally incompetant?), or...".

Maybe they knew beforehand of his submission to rank, as is apparent now. He's a hack, an idiot. No offense to you. You can like him all you want. The man is a bumbling fool.

[jwalsh07]

Joe Namath was exempt from the draft for "bad knees" and went on to play in the Super Bowl that year. I've seen him spouting on some commercial about American values; perhaps he will be part of the Iraqi invasion force

Namath couldn't pass the physical. If you had his knees you wouldn't have passed either. Namath hurt his knees as running quaterback at Alabama and he hobbled from the first play in the NFL to his last.

He is really not a good target.

[madison10]

To Dave S: That was a crappy thing to say to someone who was in the military. No one gets a brownie points for serving in the most "honorable" war. Serving is serving.

[frnewsjunkie]

I wonder what your percentages are for those numbers. Percentages of how many were drafted compared to how many never heard from the military during those years.

My point being there was no war, no flareups, no reason to have a draft callup for any more than needed to "maintain" status quo.

When young men signed up for the draft, it was known who was in college and who was married. That did put deferrments on those young men. There was no massive draft, so how can one say Cheney was a draft dodger?

Percentage-wise, those numbers represent a small number of men. My husband took someone's place, as he volunteered.

And as one got older, though they could still be drafted in a war, they were not prime targets for the military during peacetime. Married men were usually deferred, and "w/children" were deferred.

Someone is trying to use "this" time, and take it back to "that" time... and it just doesn't wash. That's my point!

[Dan Day]

Hackworth is absolutely correct to question the motives and tactics of war on Iraq.

You don't say... So he was "absolutely correct" when he flat-out stated that it was impossible for any Iraqi nuclear weapons to take out New York or LA because Saddam doesn't have ICBMs?

Do you, like Hackworth, believe that nuclear weapons can't be delivered to our shores by boats?

[dcwusmc]

No military in the history of the world has had as few comparative fatalities as the US. Even when we have 'lost' kill ratio's were what - 5:1?

And your point is????
Try explaining to a grieving mother that her son's death was "comparatively rare" and see what happens. Not to mention that there are NUMEROUS times when lives were thrown away to no purpose, as witness Khe Sahn. Not that long after the seige was lifted, the base was abandoned. It had NEVER been strategically necessary to hold the place, except deep in the recesses of Westmoreland's mind. Those Marines and others who died there died to no tactical or strategic purpose (except to protect their fellows in that God-forsaken hole).

People like Hack DO tend to make military planners actually think about the actual, real lives involved in operations. Unlike the "geo-political" thinkers like Kissinger who wrote off over 2000 people just to get his "peace" prize. His elitist rationale that they had signed up and knew the risks was elitist bullshit but there are too many that have that attitude and too few like Hack to make them THINK about what they are doing.

[L.N. Smithee]

Brilliant! Did you create that yourself? You gotta send that to Rush!

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Great, then let him fill that capacity, talking about crapola in ranks like expensive desks. Maybe he can put an end to the monopoly Bic has on supplying pens to the military; but keep his pie hole shut when it comes to things of importance (a desk is not the same security issue he indicates he knows nothing about when he open his yap regarding Bush/Cheney, etc).

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

That was comment was really dumb.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Hackworth has done more for this country than you could even fantasize about

Yep, he is pulling front for the DU crowd. Go Hack go!

[cynicom]

Mickey Mantle, bad knees also, 4F... Went on to play ball for years and drink himself to death.

I always tell those that avoided service, "Someone else had to take your place, does that bother you". No answer.

[cyncooper]

Actually, that's an outrageous IMPLICATION of what you wrote. And in many cases correct.

It is not.

Your post in its entirety:

So wealthy or politically connected guys who could get a doctor to give them a medical pass, or maybe an appointment to the Air National Guard are morally superior to guys who could at best afford to go to Canada, or simply hide out?

They were all trying to do the same thing--avoid risking their hides in Vietnam. I think you're drawing a false distinction. In fact, I give the rich guys lower grades--they wanted all the benefits of an affluent lifestyle, and then used those benefits to avoid their obligation. Pretty vile, IMHO.

Now, do you have someone in mind who was wealthy or politically connected who "got" a doctor to give them a medical pass, the *implication* of which is the medical pass is a lie? I in no way endorsed this tactic.

And we can guess who you are referring to as "appointed" to the Air National Guard. President Bush served honorably, IMO, and you, by implication here, align him with the likes of those who fled to Canada, etc. And you go on to mention "risking hides" no less. I contend that George W. Bush did take risks, though they were not taken in Vietnam, again it is outrageous to equate his service with draft-dodgers, and outrageous to write that I endorsed any sort of behavior such as medical passes given fraudulently. Obviously that would fall into the realm of deception which I have noted is wrong.

[laconic]

Cry me a river; many men with far worse ailments than "bad knees" were drafted (or enlisted) and served. Your knees ain't that bad if you can survive being rushed by 350 pounders in a football stadium. Namath had a rich sugar daddy, his name was Weeb Ewbank who apparently had some "magic" to do with the draft board. I don't put Cheney in the same (low) category as Namath.

[GoMonster]

hackworth has always been a nut. his only good feature is he hated clinton. aside from that he was promoted by abc and wrote for them. he is really a liberal.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

They were all trying to do the same thing--avoid risking their hides in Vietnam. I think you're drawing a false distinction. In fact, I give the rich guys lower grades--they wanted all the benefits of an affluent lifestyle, and then used those benefits to avoid their obligation. Pretty vile, IMHO.

That simply isn't true. There's a good deal of crap on this thread...left-wing drivel has become part of mainstream America thanks to the lies of the likes of Cronkite, Oliver Stone and the original dodgers - those "peacenik" liars of the 60s and 70s.

The average age of our troops in Vietnam - early 20s, majority - white, over 60% volunteered (more than in WWII), they were more educated and had fewer soldiers go AWOL than the WWII troops, and today a vast majority of our Vietnam Vets are glad they served and would serve again. Our Vietnam Vets are the most successful group of Veterans in our nation's history - family, career-wise and financially. The 'minority, poor, young, draftee victim of the evil government' lie has been a destructive and divisive talking point of the left for decades. It is a hateful, anti-American lie and a disservice to all who served - and to freedom-loving people around the world ...even those who didn't serve.

Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of its Heroes and its History by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.

[El Gato]

Cheney might be a bit less hawkish on invading Iraq

Maybe, and maybe not. G.H.W Bush was pretty hawkish back in the early 90s yet he not only served, he was the youngest Navy fighter pilot in WW-II, (at least at time he got his wings) and was shot down..twice.

[laconic]

Contrast Mantle and Namath with Ted Williams, a truly remarkable man and patriot who served as a pilot in two wars (Korea, WW2) when he could have spent those prime years playing baseball. Also, Elvis Presley, who may have served in Germany, but who at least set an example and gave up two of his best earning years as an entertainer.

[dcwusmc]

Good point. Thanks for making it. It should be obvious yet there are too many who give a pass to someone who did that and went on to aspire to lead those who DIDN'T take such a cowardly way out.

[leadhead]

You missed a classification:

Not Volunteered, Not Drafted, In combat area.