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Stop calling Islam the enemy
The International Herald Tribune ^ | Thursday, December 5, 2002 | William Pfaff

Posted on 12/04/2002 11:21:44 PM PST by Kaiwen

Edited on 12/05/2002 2:18:12 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

PARIS A part of the neoconservative intelligentsia in Washington is trying to turn the Bush administration's "war against terrorism" into a war against Muslim civilization and the Islamic religion.

Such influential figures as Eliot Cohen of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and Kenneth Adelman of the Defense Department advisory policy board, a former Reagan administration official, criticize President George W. Bush for his efforts to assure Muslims that his war is against terrorism, not against their religion.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: islam; religionofpeace; terrorism
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To: dwills
WHERE?
21 posted on 12/05/2002 12:19:59 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: dwills
IS WINSTON A BIGOT? NOPE HE IS RIGHT ON TARGET!

"Churchill despised the (ISLAM) Pathans, calling them 'Stone Age savages whose daily deeds are treachery and violence'. He dismissed Islam as a 'miserable superstition propagated by the sword', the founding principle of which was an 'incentive to slaughter'. The village mosque, he deemed a 'consecrated hovel'. He hated the Pathan lifestyle, saying they lived in 'fortified slums, amid dirt and ignorance, as degraded a race as any on the fringe of humanity; fierce as the tiger, but less cleanly.'


22 posted on 12/05/2002 12:21:22 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Kaiwen
...Islam is "evil."

That particular portion of the article I found to be accurate, inspiring, and "progressive" for the simplicity of its truthfulness.

Today's clashes between America and elements of Islamic society reflect a power struggle inside Islamic society between fundamentalists and others; between obscurantists and progressives; between traditionalists and political fanatics.

Then why are the "others" so damn quiet about the actions of the "extremists"? It's a simple case of those that practice the religion and those that don't. As it was explained to me by a sunni (before 9/11 when open discussion was more possible), the "extremists" don't compromise Islam to accomodate western society and the others admire them for it. That's why they're silent. Even the ones that condemned the 9/11 attacks clarified their remarks. Every muslim I saw on TV said the same thing: 'Islam teaches that it is wrong to kill innocent people. There were muslims in those buildings.' "There were muslims in those buildings". Remember, according to islam, we are not people. We are dogs and pigs. Only muslims are "people". Every time I saw an interview I prayed they would not clarify their remarks, but they did. Maybe there were some that didn't, but if so, I didn't see them. Sunni, shia or wahabbi, ALL teach the same thing toward unbelievers. Islam is a demonic reincarnation of Baal worship, nothing more.

23 posted on 12/05/2002 12:22:43 AM PST by thatdewd
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To: DoughtyOne
"Let's ask a few questions here:

1. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in their newspapers?
2. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in their television programming?
3. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in their schools?
4. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in their mosks?(sic)
5. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in their streets?
6. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in terrorist camps?
7. Do the middle-eastern people teach hatred in their homes?
8. Is this hatred leveled at Israel and the United States as well as western culture as a whole?"

Insert the word Muslims, instead of people, and the answer is: YES.
Excellant questions!

24 posted on 12/05/2002 12:29:26 AM PST by FBD
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To: Monty22
We're at the cusp of serious war now.. Possibly WW3. It's us or the islamics.

The us better start turning, and praying to the Almighty God.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.2CHR 7.14

I will call on the LORD, [who is] worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies. 2Sam24.2

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14.6
25 posted on 12/05/2002 12:31:11 AM PST by Delphinium
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To: Kaiwen
I have low expectations for a religion that has Jihad as a central tenant. That views itself,  Dar al-Islam, at war with the world. A religion whose central figure was a pederast, brigand and killer.
26 posted on 12/05/2002 12:37:49 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Kaiwen
It's them or us, kill or be killed, they started it and declared the war. It's time we took them seriously and wipe them out.
27 posted on 12/05/2002 12:41:19 AM PST by dalereed
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To: dwills
I am very uncomfortable with blanket statements as a rule, but I do believe there is a very real posibility of an undeniable pervasive culture that extends beyond the middle-east to ensnare the Moslem people as a whole.

Something is driving these people from the upper middle-east throughout the lower regions of Asia into the South Pacific, to attack western culture and it's people.

Our leaders can dismiss this, or they can look into it and disprove it. I am not convinced that they can.

I believe the answers to all my questions in post five were yes. The only part I'm not certain about, is the part about the Mosks teaching hatred of the West. I do know that at least the Wahhabi sect is ultra-violent. I do not know about the others. Some have said Islam is. I don't know if that is true or not. If so, we need to accept it and act accordingly.

28 posted on 12/05/2002 12:41:23 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: Formerly Brainwashed Democrat
I considered that, but I wanted to take all the charged words out of it. Look, if your society was permiated to this level by hatred taught at every level, wouldn't you be inclined to dispise the target group? How could you not be? That was the part I was trying to convey. Now add the religion back in if you like. Some people won't listen if you do. I think the message is clear. Those folks have been programed in every way possible since birth to dispise us. I wonder if they do. Wow, do you think?
29 posted on 12/05/2002 12:47:45 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: dwills
"there are millions of muslims with more goodwill toward america than the bigots have toward them."

There are many more MILLIONS that wish for the destruction of the U.S. and Israel. Islam is a parasitic religion that feeds off of the carcasses of the countries it destroys.

Take a tour of 22 Middle - Eastern Muslim countries. They are religuos dictatorships that treat women like dirt, (want 6 wives? no problem.)

Not a one of them has free elections, free speech, or freedom from Islam!

THEY are the bigots.

30 posted on 12/05/2002 1:00:49 AM PST by FBD
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To: Kaiwen
Stop calling Islam the enemy

I prefer to call Islam what it is, The Adversary.

31 posted on 12/05/2002 1:01:08 AM PST by Godel
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To: dwills
there are millions of muslims with more goodwill toward america than the bigots have toward them

Funny, I have not met any around here. They burn American flags, put out bounties on American lives and have killed 24 of them in the last 24 months. Perhaps you can point out the millions of posts by Islamics that are Pro American? Surely your million man statement can be backed up by a few thousand man protests against America being attacked without a war being declared, when all America had done for the Moslems for the last 50 years is help them with Aid, both military and money and buy their oil.

Surely you jest, are a shill for the Moslem front or are a "useful idiot" as Stalin said. Do you have a suggestion for a fourth possibility? Because I do not think the rather correct observation that Islam is a religious cult founded on ethnic and religious cleansing of its neighbors raceist, but simply realist.

After 1400 years of the same thing, the pattern is obvious to all but the most determined sheeple, and if that was not enough you could simply read what they say or listen to them on the TV. Yes they are coming to kill you simply because you are not like them. Like Regan said Don't be afraid to look evil in the eye and know it for what it is.

Too many years of putting rubber bumpers on corners and "don't iron your clothes while wearing" stickers on appliances has made America into disney land. Get some gonads already!

32 posted on 12/05/2002 1:01:34 AM PST by American in Israel
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To: DoughtyOne
The only part I'm not certain about, is the part about the Mosks teaching hatred of the West.

I can only speak for the Mosks that are over here. They teach the destruction of America as a religious obligation.

33 posted on 12/05/2002 1:06:46 AM PST by American in Israel
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To: Kaiwen
How does all this explain the Muslim's attacking and killing Hindus? Or the Muslims killing Christian Sudanese or Nigerians? Yep, those Jewish Nigerians and Jewish Hindus are responsible.
34 posted on 12/05/2002 1:13:12 AM PST by PallMal
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To: DoughtyOne
Imho, I think we have to take this religion head on, just like we had to take on the Nazi's. Islam is a cult that has no tolerance or regard for "the unbeliever."

Check out this site:

http://www.stopislam.com/

Regards,
F.B.D.
35 posted on 12/05/2002 1:13:19 AM PST by FBD
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To: Brad C.
If it is not a war against their religion, then the ones who are not the fanatics and fundementalists should step forward and help bring it to and end. If you are not with us, youare against us.

But they almost never do. It's stunning, really. But when you think about it, it isn't. These are the people whom we grew accustomed to accomodating regardless of ideology, which was, to say the least a great mistake, and now must be reversed.

We wouldn't let the Hare Krishnas, or the Nazis get away with this shit, would we?

36 posted on 12/05/2002 1:18:11 AM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: American in Israel
That's not a tough concept for me to accept. Look if every other aspect of society was permiated with this group think, the Mosks almost certain had to be. I am not certain to what extent the world's Mosks are are guilty of this. I'll tell you one thing, if I were in the espionage game it'd be my first order of business to find out. If they all are, or most of them are, I'd declare my own little Jihad until there wasn't a Mosk left standing between Istanbul and Manilla.
37 posted on 12/05/2002 1:20:32 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: Kaiwen
Here is the true intent of Islam...


38 posted on 12/05/2002 1:26:04 AM PST by FBD
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To: Monty22
We're at the cusp of serious war now.. Possibly WW3. It's us or the islamics.

I've always thought it would come down to this. We may lose, because noone is more motivated than a brainwashed member of an ideology/philosophy.

Keep in mind that ideologies are not necessarily protected by the first amendment, especially those which advocate the overthrow of the United States Government.

39 posted on 12/05/2002 1:28:05 AM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: Kaiwen
The guy is an airhead.

We were attacked by muslims in the name of their god. The "mainstream" refused to condemn it. They danced in the streets to celebrate it. That makes it a religious war because it was done in the name of religion.

And all wars have a solution. It's called victory--and it is achieved by defeating the enemy.

40 posted on 12/05/2002 1:36:33 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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