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Do Moslems, Christians & Jews Believe in the Same God?
frontpagemag ^ | 11/28/2002 | Serge Trifkovic

Posted on 11/28/2002 7:06:02 PM PST by TLBSHOW

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To: SkyPilot
I defy anyone to read the Koran and not see it as a bunch of tripe. Every 4th or 5th sentence is entirely out of context, nonsensical, and completely contradictory.

Unlike Genesis, which speaks of giants living among men, and people turned into pillars of salt, and talking snakes. Or the Book of Revelations, which speaks of the seven-headed whore of Babylon.

141 posted on 11/28/2002 9:39:35 PM PST by Commie Basher
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To: Restorer
... I've noticed remarkably little reciprocation from Orthodox Jews, in doctrinal compromise or willingness to accept Christians as brothers.

Truly, this is of no import. I do not expect my grandmother to accept my embrace of the such concepts as the "internet" or "relativity", yet I honor her as I do my mother and father. Reciprocation is unneeded here. It is not a matter of compromise. Einstein, and many other scientists of the 20th century, made comments that 'they were able to see so far only because they stood on the shoulders of [the] giants' of the past, such as Newton, Copernicus, et al. The situation with Jews and Christians is similar, and no less respectful, even were Newton to have major problems with Einstein's discoveries.

142 posted on 11/28/2002 9:42:32 PM PST by AFPhys
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To: Commie Basher
I was thinking along similar lines when I read " I defy anyone to read the Koran and not see it as a bunch of tripe.". Had I an irony meter, it would have exploded.
143 posted on 11/28/2002 9:44:09 PM PST by Dimensio
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To: crystalk
Roger Williams (founder of Rhode Island colony) disagreed with you in 1644:

Sixthly, it is the will and command of God that (since the coming of his Son the Lord Jesus) a permission of the most paganish, Jewish, Turkish, or antichristian consciences and worships, be granted to all men in all nations and countries; and they are only to be fought against with that sword which is only (in soul matters) able to conquer, to wit, the sword of God's Spirit, the Word of God.
144 posted on 11/28/2002 9:44:28 PM PST by Restorer
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To: crystalk
Muhammad and Joseph Smith both lived much later than St John.

They are not prophets.

145 posted on 11/28/2002 9:44:55 PM PST by PhilipFreneau
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Comment #146 Removed by Moderator

To: SickOfItAll
There are two books I've read, fiction, This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness by Frank Peretti? Perhaps you have read it. It deals with the demonic forces in this world.....how they influence people and how Christians are being attacked in America.
147 posted on 11/28/2002 9:46:53 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: SickOfItAll
That's, ABSOLUTELY, false BS. Where did you get that tripe, dude???

Are you saying that it is false that Jefferson made a comment during the Barbay pirates disupte or are you disputing that Jefferson did not believe that the US was a Christian nation?
148 posted on 11/28/2002 9:47:36 PM PST by Dimensio
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To: No dems 2002
There's no way to come to the Father except through Jesus.

Then I assume you view Jews in the same light.

Except that a remarkable number of Christians seem to think that Jews do have another way to come to the Father.

Which is it? Both cannot be true.

Either he's the only way or he's not.

149 posted on 11/28/2002 9:48:04 PM PST by Restorer
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To: nicmarlo
Thanks nic,

There was an article somewhere (The Atlantic Monthly?) that pointed out many of the phrases and sayings of Old and New Testament that have made their way into songs, literature, drama, etc.

"The Sun Also Rises."

"A Time for War, A Time for Peace."

etc...

I would I could link it.

If you compare some phrases from the bible, the logic and context of the bible vs. the koran is striking:

Bible

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Proverbs 26:4

Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge

Psalm 4:2 - How long will you love delusions and seek false gods?

Luke 12:57 - "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right?

_______________________________________________________________________

Koran

O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you Surah V:57

"Any wife or concubine who dies while her husband was pleased with her will enter Paradise." Hadith 61

Oh readers of the book! And slay them wherever ye find them ... Such is the reward of disbelievers. Surah II:191

150 posted on 11/28/2002 9:49:16 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Restorer
"..all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death."

This is very different from the false Islam god. The verse you refer to above is directed to the Jews living "in the Holy Land." God separated His people from the others and commanded them to keep Israel holy by following His commandments. If the Jews allowed foreigners to abide in their land, they were to follow God's laws as well. So, people in Egypt could do whatever they wanted and didn't need to fear stoning by the Jews. People living in God's Holy land amongst the Jews were required to keep the law or leave.
151 posted on 11/28/2002 9:49:33 PM PST by Sweet Hour of Prayer
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To: jocon307
Dunno. We shall see how it develops.

For false Christs and false prophets will arise...-Jesus, Matt. 24:24.

See to it that no one misleads you. Jesus-Mark 13:5

..in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons-1Tim.4:1

..evil men and imposters will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived-2Tim.3:13

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1John4:1

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.(--as the incarnation of the LORD God Almighty.)
152 posted on 11/28/2002 9:49:34 PM PST by Gal.5:1
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To: CanisMajor2002
It might be noted that at the time of writing, the Separation of Church and State implicit in the prohibition of any law regarding religion defined religion as a denomination of Christianity.

The point of view that Islam, Christianity and Judeism are based upon the same God is largely established by Freemasonry. It might be noted that if one states they believe in God through the Lord Savior Jesus Christ, the fundamental tennet of Christianity, they will not be accepted into Freemasonry. This is an indicator of recent Freemasonry deception as with the proposed question.

Jewish Scripture in the Torah, books of Poetry, History, and Prophecy are accepted as the Word of God and were recognized as such by the Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

The Koran written some 6 centuries after Christ, deviates considerably from the Scripture. Much of its divergence is based upon opposites to Scripture. E.g. Isaac vs Ishmael, Temple doors facing east and the priests are never to turn their bask on God, hence always face to the west, whereas Islamic Prayers are all facing east, why would a sound Scripture present blatent opposite Scripture from previous Scripture? Obviously they are not the same.

Blood sacrifice is required for atonement of sin , but the enemies are slaughtered generally in preservation of a bloodline to Christ in Scripture. Prior to Christ, the Jews are the chosen people and God's relationship with man focuses on them. Upon the blood sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb, the Temple curtain was rent in two and man's body became the Temple of God (for the Holy Spirit in one person). A time of the Gentiles was introduced wherein all man has had atonement for sin via Christ.

Six centuries later, the crucification and resurrection of Christ are denied by Islam. Accordingly, Islam is not the same God as Judeo-Christian Godhead.

The closest common denominator between the three groups might be the identification of Satan. Considering he is the father of all lies and Islam asserts Christ is not a person of God, then one must decide upon the identity of Christ with respect to God before further discerning the truth between the beliefs. If one accepts Christ as the Savior, then the God of Islam might share some common features with the Father to those poorly educated in Scripture, but ultimately the Scripture will point Islam towards Satan rather than God.

153 posted on 11/28/2002 9:53:58 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: PhilipFreneau
Edgar Cayce, Nostradamus, Ellen White?
154 posted on 11/28/2002 9:54:36 PM PST by crystalk
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To: Commie Basher; SkyPilot
SkyPilot: "I defy anyone to read the Koran and not see it as a bunch of tripe. Every 4th or 5th sentence is entirely out of context, nonsensical, and completely contradictory."

Commie Basher: "Unlike Genesis, which speaks of giants living among men, and people turned into pillars of salt, and talking snakes. Or the Book of Revelations, which speaks of the seven-headed whore of Babylon."

Commie Basher, first of all, from SkyPilot's post, it is obvious he was speaking about the manner in which the text is written. I take it YOU have not read the Koran. SkyPilot is 100% correct. This is not only his opinion. Do a search on the Internet and you will find that SkyPilot's criticism is justified. This is the worst text I've ever tried to follow or make sense out of. As a "book of literature," it would get an "F" grade.

You, Commie Basher, instead of addressing the syntax, sequence, of thought and word attacked CONTENT. This is not what SkyPilot focused on. That is another subject matter, altogethr. The CONTENT can be "believed" or "disbelieved." Because SkyPilot does NOT believe what is written in the Koran does not negate the poor sentence structure, sequence, logic, thought processes in its writings.

155 posted on 11/28/2002 9:54:47 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: TLBSHOW
Do Moslems, Christians & Jews Believe in the Same God?

No. Muhammad's innovation stands in about the same relationship to the Judeo/Christian deity as does that of L.Ron Hubbard.
156 posted on 11/28/2002 9:54:50 PM PST by aruanan
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To: SickOfItAll
"[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom... was finally passed,... a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination."

--Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.

A treaty with Tunis approved unanimously by the US Senate on June 10, 1797:

Article 11 reads, "As the government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] - and as the said states have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

I was incorrect. John Adams was President at the time, not Jefferson. But the treaty was negotiated under the administration of George Washington.

Looks like the first three US presidents disagreed with you.

157 posted on 11/28/2002 9:57:43 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
Remember, historical facts that contradict their agenda are false, out of context or insignificant.
158 posted on 11/28/2002 10:01:21 PM PST by Dimensio
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To: TLBSHOW
Here's the official teaching of The Catechism of the Catholic Church. I accept it as truth that:
The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." [CCC, 841]
As I understand it, this teaching says that, insofar as the Muslims worship the same God as Abraham, they worship the One and Only true God. This does not mean that Islam is "just as good as" Chistianity; it does mean that Muslims perceive a piece of the Truth, but not the Whole Truth. When a Muslim sees Allah he sees God, but a warped, distorted image of God, filtered through the dark glass of Arab tribal paganism and Satanic disinformation. The Whole Truth exists solely within the Church; therefore, there is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this does not mean anything as crude as "only baptized Catholics go to Heaven". Rather,

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. [CCC 846-7]

In other words: Christ is the only Way to Heaven, and only those who seek and accept Him as Lord and God will be saved; however, God is not bound by His Own sacraments, and may, though acts of Divine Mercy, preserve those who sincerely seek Truth (and therefore Him) at the Last Day. How God saves people is His Own affair.

But this does not mean that all religions are equal! This simply means that only God is a Perfect Judge, and only He can be counted upon to give every one of us the afterlife that he or she truly deserves. (The thought of myself getting what I truly deserve frankly scares the crap out of me.) We cannot judge who is saved; our job is to tell the world Who Jesus is so that they can be saved:

"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize ." [CCC 848]
So: do the Muslims pray to the same God as Christians and Jews? If they are praying to the God of Abraham, the answer is yes. But despite that, Islam is still an error, a heresy, and a damnable lie based upon the denial of the Incarnation, Resurrection, and Eternal Kingship of Jesus Christ, and should be vigorously opposed by all followers of Our Lord and Master. Satan's claws are sunk deep into Islam; although his infernal power cannot extinguish the spark of Truth that lies at its heart, the fact remains that any Muslims in Heaven will be there in spite of the teachings of Mohammed, not because of them.
159 posted on 11/28/2002 10:01:52 PM PST by B-Chan
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Comment #160 Removed by Moderator


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