Posted on 11/28/2002 7:06:02 PM PST by TLBSHOW
Unlike Genesis, which speaks of giants living among men, and people turned into pillars of salt, and talking snakes. Or the Book of Revelations, which speaks of the seven-headed whore of Babylon.
Truly, this is of no import. I do not expect my grandmother to accept my embrace of the such concepts as the "internet" or "relativity", yet I honor her as I do my mother and father. Reciprocation is unneeded here. It is not a matter of compromise. Einstein, and many other scientists of the 20th century, made comments that 'they were able to see so far only because they stood on the shoulders of [the] giants' of the past, such as Newton, Copernicus, et al. The situation with Jews and Christians is similar, and no less respectful, even were Newton to have major problems with Einstein's discoveries.
They are not prophets.
Then I assume you view Jews in the same light.
Except that a remarkable number of Christians seem to think that Jews do have another way to come to the Father.
Which is it? Both cannot be true.
Either he's the only way or he's not.
There was an article somewhere (The Atlantic Monthly?) that pointed out many of the phrases and sayings of Old and New Testament that have made their way into songs, literature, drama, etc.
"The Sun Also Rises."
"A Time for War, A Time for Peace."
etc...
I would I could link it.
If you compare some phrases from the bible, the logic and context of the bible vs. the koran is striking:
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Proverbs 26:4
Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
Psalm 4:2 - How long will you love delusions and seek false gods?
Luke 12:57 - "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right?
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O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you Surah V:57
"Any wife or concubine who dies while her husband was pleased with her will enter Paradise." Hadith 61
Oh readers of the book! And slay them wherever ye find them ... Such is the reward of disbelievers. Surah II:191
The point of view that Islam, Christianity and Judeism are based upon the same God is largely established by Freemasonry. It might be noted that if one states they believe in God through the Lord Savior Jesus Christ, the fundamental tennet of Christianity, they will not be accepted into Freemasonry. This is an indicator of recent Freemasonry deception as with the proposed question.
Jewish Scripture in the Torah, books of Poetry, History, and Prophecy are accepted as the Word of God and were recognized as such by the Lord Savior Jesus Christ.
The Koran written some 6 centuries after Christ, deviates considerably from the Scripture. Much of its divergence is based upon opposites to Scripture. E.g. Isaac vs Ishmael, Temple doors facing east and the priests are never to turn their bask on God, hence always face to the west, whereas Islamic Prayers are all facing east, why would a sound Scripture present blatent opposite Scripture from previous Scripture? Obviously they are not the same.
Blood sacrifice is required for atonement of sin , but the enemies are slaughtered generally in preservation of a bloodline to Christ in Scripture. Prior to Christ, the Jews are the chosen people and God's relationship with man focuses on them. Upon the blood sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb, the Temple curtain was rent in two and man's body became the Temple of God (for the Holy Spirit in one person). A time of the Gentiles was introduced wherein all man has had atonement for sin via Christ.
Six centuries later, the crucification and resurrection of Christ are denied by Islam. Accordingly, Islam is not the same God as Judeo-Christian Godhead.
The closest common denominator between the three groups might be the identification of Satan. Considering he is the father of all lies and Islam asserts Christ is not a person of God, then one must decide upon the identity of Christ with respect to God before further discerning the truth between the beliefs. If one accepts Christ as the Savior, then the God of Islam might share some common features with the Father to those poorly educated in Scripture, but ultimately the Scripture will point Islam towards Satan rather than God.
Commie Basher: "Unlike Genesis, which speaks of giants living among men, and people turned into pillars of salt, and talking snakes. Or the Book of Revelations, which speaks of the seven-headed whore of Babylon."
Commie Basher, first of all, from SkyPilot's post, it is obvious he was speaking about the manner in which the text is written. I take it YOU have not read the Koran. SkyPilot is 100% correct. This is not only his opinion. Do a search on the Internet and you will find that SkyPilot's criticism is justified. This is the worst text I've ever tried to follow or make sense out of. As a "book of literature," it would get an "F" grade.
You, Commie Basher, instead of addressing the syntax, sequence, of thought and word attacked CONTENT. This is not what SkyPilot focused on. That is another subject matter, altogethr. The CONTENT can be "believed" or "disbelieved." Because SkyPilot does NOT believe what is written in the Koran does not negate the poor sentence structure, sequence, logic, thought processes in its writings.
--Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
A treaty with Tunis approved unanimously by the US Senate on June 10, 1797:
Article 11 reads, "As the government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] - and as the said states have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
I was incorrect. John Adams was President at the time, not Jefferson. But the treaty was negotiated under the administration of George Washington.
Looks like the first three US presidents disagreed with you.
The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." [CCC, 841]As I understand it, this teaching says that, insofar as the Muslims worship the same God as Abraham, they worship the One and Only true God. This does not mean that Islam is "just as good as" Chistianity; it does mean that Muslims perceive a piece of the Truth, but not the Whole Truth. When a Muslim sees Allah he sees God, but a warped, distorted image of God, filtered through the dark glass of Arab tribal paganism and Satanic disinformation. The Whole Truth exists solely within the Church; therefore, there is no salvation outside the Church.
However, this does not mean anything as crude as "only baptized Catholics go to Heaven". Rather,
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.In other words: Christ is the only Way to Heaven, and only those who seek and accept Him as Lord and God will be saved; however, God is not bound by His Own sacraments, and may, though acts of Divine Mercy, preserve those who sincerely seek Truth (and therefore Him) at the Last Day. How God saves people is His Own affair.This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. [CCC 846-7]
But this does not mean that all religions are equal! This simply means that only God is a Perfect Judge, and only He can be counted upon to give every one of us the afterlife that he or she truly deserves. (The thought of myself getting what I truly deserve frankly scares the crap out of me.) We cannot judge who is saved; our job is to tell the world Who Jesus is so that they can be saved:
"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize ." [CCC 848]So: do the Muslims pray to the same God as Christians and Jews? If they are praying to the God of Abraham, the answer is yes. But despite that, Islam is still an error, a heresy, and a damnable lie based upon the denial of the Incarnation, Resurrection, and Eternal Kingship of Jesus Christ, and should be vigorously opposed by all followers of Our Lord and Master. Satan's claws are sunk deep into Islam; although his infernal power cannot extinguish the spark of Truth that lies at its heart, the fact remains that any Muslims in Heaven will be there in spite of the teachings of Mohammed, not because of them.
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